Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

This place is heating up

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Created by beefarmer 4 months ago, 11 Jan 2020
Poida
WA, 1834 posts
5 Mar 2020 4:20PM
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here is a list of the top 10 issues facing the community in the future as voted by an Australian engineering poll.

www.createdigital.org.au/10-global-challenges-the-world-will-face-in-the-next-25-years-according-to-engineers/?utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EDM-20200305

1 Securing cyberspace
2 Economical clean energy
3 Sustaining land and oceans
4 Sustainable and resilient infrastructure
5 Sustainable cities
6 Access to clean water and sanitation
7 Clean air
8 Food security
9 Preparing for and containing pandemics
10 Developing and delivering better medicines

TonyAbbott
483 posts
30 Mar 2020 10:23AM
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When the COVID19 virus has passed and we are left to repair a broken economy, how important is spending Trillions a year on job destroying renewable energy and climate policies going to be?

Little Jon
NSW, 2056 posts
1 Apr 2020 8:06AM
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Pretty sure Scomo has solved the climate crisis. Australia has more than achieved it targets and look what has happened, it has worked. There is heaps of rain since smashing the targets and the temperature for autumn is cool too. It's not a problem anymore its history thanks to the mighty Scomo.

Poida
WA, 1834 posts
1 Apr 2020 11:00AM
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There are a large number of new and significant solar power generating sites under construction around the country, mostly driven by the overpriced fossil fuel generators. Plenty of new jobs.

No need for the alarm that is spread by the right wing factions of the Liberal Party. HG Nelson explained it very well, Scomo is stuck with a split party on the issue.

Coal, diesel and gas will still be used into the future, but relegated to a lower base load. They are very inflexible generators and very expensive. Batteries and power storage methods of one sort or another will provide the flexibility. Get your inventors caps on.

TonyAbbott
483 posts
12 Apr 2020 5:04AM
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Raw panic has beset the Climate Change Alarmist cult.

For their theory holds; that using fossil fuels increases the level of Co2 in the atmosphere - which with feedbacks, in turn leads to significant global warming - which in turn leads to bad weather.

Therefore, Alarmists hold that if we stop using fossil fuels, we can stop bad weather getting worse.

Not withstanding that the evidence shows no increases in bad weather (and deaths from extreme weather has fallen 98% over the past century) there has been a sceptical argument that the measured increases in C02 over the past 60 years have little to do with man's use of fossil fuels, but are mainly natural, coming from the oceans and undersea volcanoes.

I did not believe this argument, and only way to prove it true or false was to conduct a massive experiment by having a huge global reduction in man's use of fossil fuels - and see what effect this has on the measured levels of Co2 in the atmosphere.

And with the courtesy of the Wuhan flu, and the resultant global pandemic - the world is now locked down with aviation and automobile travel at a near standstill - so we are unexpectedly running this experiment.

And so far, measured levels of increases in atmospheric CO2 are showing no change from previous years. In fact over the past two weeks they appear to be increasing faster than normal.

This will be interested to watch in the weeks to come, because 'what if' the world goes through all this pain and massive economic downturn with a very substantial reduction in fossil fuel use - but it has no effect on the measured level of Co2 in the atmosphere?

This would be the final nail in the coffin of Climate Change Alarmism - no wonder they are in a raw panic.

PaulWA
WA, 44 posts
12 Apr 2020 12:26PM
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One of my pet theories has been the impact of Airliner traffic on climate. I did as much reading as I could (there was not much, besides the usual "adding to CO2 levels"). Debates seemed to vary between they make it warmer, cooler and no effect with the only real evidence based data from the 9-11 shutdown. In the end they seemed to conclude that the specific measurements could not be correlated reliably enough to the lack of planes. Although some stations recorded heating, even just in the few days after 911, so also recorded cooling so no proper conclusions could be drawn. I was sitting down at the estuary a couple months ago, wish for more wind, before this whole virus thing kicked off, wondering if there was a way to greatly reduce airplane traffic, just day dreaming.

I guess now we get to see what happens. I just hope there are still people who care enough and are taking accurate measurements. (and they don't feel so vested in the other ideas that they refuse to see what is happening)

For the record, I have always been a little reluctant to believe that CO2 was as important as others seemed to think and was very nervous that the extreme focus on it meant we could be missing other, possibly stronger contributing factors.

Just laying it out there, and wearing my Foil Hat in public... I think that maybe the planes contributed to a net cooling effect. My theory on how this worked was that the planes increased the planet's albedo, made it a lighter colour. The dispersed jet trails at high altitude reflect more of the suns heat back into space than they trap in.


So maybe we will start to see measurable warming in the short term... if, I'm right.


I just hope, that either this virus thing, or realizing how little we understand about climate brings about a new, healthier understanding of science, where questioning is expected and limitations always implied. I fear a world where "science" is the new mass religion and questioning the mainstream labels one as a heretic and society keeps following "science" down whatever one-tracked focus is the current "thing" we all need to believe and worry about.

Don't get me wrong, I love science and enjoy the benefits every day but I think it is very good for answering specific questions, just not very good at finding out what questions you should be asking. Maybe society needs a little more focus and understanding of philosophy or some other way of keeping an eye on the bigger picture.

Paradox
QLD, 970 posts
23 Apr 2020 9:01AM
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Pretty damning vid on renewable energy.

Can't say I disagree with it.

TonyAbbott
483 posts
24 Apr 2020 6:12AM
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Select to expand quote
Paradox said..
Pretty damning vid on renewable energy.

Can't say I disagree with it.




Will Climate Alarmists admit that they've been tricked ?

Or will they remain in denial ?

FormulaNova
NSW, 10849 posts
24 Apr 2020 9:35AM
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Select to expand quote
TonyAbbott said..

Paradox said..
Pretty damning vid on renewable energy.

Can't say I disagree with it.





Will Climate Alarmists admit that they've been tricked ?

Or will they remain in denial ?


Have you watched it? I haven't.

How have they been tricked and by who?

Poida
WA, 1834 posts
24 Apr 2020 8:59AM
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Select to expand quote
Paradox said..
Pretty damning vid on renewable energy.

Can't say I disagree with it.



You have misinterpreted the point of the film
Pretty damning vid on
capitalism
overpopulation
consumption
suicidal economic growth
biomass
logging and clearing native forests
billionaires
banks
tar sand mining
black rock
coca cola
fossil fuel mining

cammd
QLD, 2735 posts
24 Apr 2020 11:13AM
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Select to expand quote
FormulaNova said..



TonyAbbott said..




Paradox said..
Pretty damning vid on renewable energy.

Can't say I disagree with it.








Will Climate Alarmists admit that they've been tricked ?

Or will they remain in denial ?





Have you watched it? I haven't.

How have they been tricked and by who?




Only watched half hour so far but

the deception is that solar and wind are an energy solution

- the renewable infrastructure cannot be manufactured without the use of fossil fuels and mining, ie the industrial infrastructure and fossil fuels it seeks to replace
- it is not free energy forever the infrastructure has a limited life and needs to be replaced in 10 or 20 years
- often the energy from fossil fuels required to build the infrastrucuture outweighs the benefit in terms of co2 emissions
- large scale conversion (destruction of natural environment) land is required
- solar and wind energy cannot operate a large grid without a baseload backup of fossil fuels.
- the myth that a guaranteed solution to all of the above problems is merely at matter of time for the technology to be invented.

The film is not pro coal or fossil fuels the narrator is every bit an environmentalist, he is just pointing out that renewable energy in the form of wind solar and battery storage are not a solution.

Ignoring all those glaring problems is the same mindset of a flat earther.

Little Jon
NSW, 2056 posts
24 Apr 2020 12:36PM
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Select to expand quote
Poida said..
There are a large number of new and significant solar power generating sites under construction around the country, mostly driven by the overpriced fossil fuel generators. Plenty of new jobs.

No need for the alarm that is spread by the right wing factions of the Liberal Party. HG Nelson explained it very well, Scomo is stuck with a split party on the issue.

Coal, diesel and gas will still be used into the future, but relegated to a lower base load. They are very inflexible generators and very expensive. Batteries and power storage methods of one sort or another will provide the flexibility. Get your inventors caps on.


Can't get much cheaper than coal, elctric cars are cheaper per km only because of the massive taxes on petrol and diesel is the most flexible as it can be turned on in seconds where the solar panels still not working a night. The battery technology is yet to be invented

tonyk
QLD, 153 posts
24 Apr 2020 1:55PM
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Select to expand quote
Paradox said..
Pretty damning vid on renewable energy.

Can't say I disagree with it.



The movie should be played to students at schools in their environmental studies class

TonyAbbott
483 posts
24 Apr 2020 9:51PM
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Select to expand quote
tonyk said..


Paradox said..
Pretty damning vid on renewable energy.

Can't say I disagree with it.





The movie should be played to students at schools in their environmental studies class



That will not happen, plenty of teachers would like to. But minority eco-fascist teachers would never allow it, they are extremely vocal, intimidating and influential.

Only left-wing green indoctrination is permitted in schools

The normal rational teachers out there just want to keep their jobs, pay their bills, and not create problems for themselves.

Paradox
QLD, 970 posts
25 Apr 2020 11:17AM
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Select to expand quote
Poida said..


Paradox said..
Pretty damning vid on renewable energy.

Can't say I disagree with it.





You have misinterpreted the point of the film
Pretty damning vid on
capitalism
overpopulation
consumption
suicidal economic growth
biomass
logging and clearing native forests
billionaires
banks
tar sand mining
black rock
coca cola
fossil fuel mining



Sure, all of that is in there. It is Michael Moore of course, who I will point out has a net worth in excess of $50mill and is a direct benificiary of living in the worlds largest capitalist nation. If he hits a billion he will have to change his stance and target trillionairs...

However my point was about the renewable energy aspect of the vid (significant content of the film) and the fallacy that it is actually clean, efficient, cheap or somehow exempt from capitalist/corporate influence and destroys the arguments that many put forward contrary to that.

Harrow
NSW, 3384 posts
28 Apr 2020 5:58PM
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One single answer to EVERY problem listed in the posts above. Stop the farce of continued increasing economic growth. Contrary to what everyone thinks, it's not helping a single person and it's creating all the problems.

KiteWindnSurf
WA, 25 posts
28 Apr 2020 4:32PM
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Select to expand quote
Harrow said..
One single answer to EVERY problem listed in the posts above. Stop the farce of continued increasing economic growth. Contrary to what everyone thinks, it's not helping a single person and it's creating all the problems.


Economic and population growth which are much the same in Aust.

mazdon
1087 posts
28 Apr 2020 7:43PM
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Select to expand quote
Paradox said..
Pretty damning vid on renewable energy.

Can't say I disagree with it.




reneweconomy.com.au/michael-moores-planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-old-myths-95769/

Heres a counter POV from from the same site Poida linked

i didnt watch it, but if the doco is essentially based on 2012 info as this author rather convincingly claims (check out the google maps of the solar array that "doesn't exist anymore" in the film), then you might be getting somewhat duped.
Or it may just align with your bias - as the article aligns with mine I admit.

Paradox
QLD, 970 posts
29 Apr 2020 9:28AM
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Select to expand quote

mazdon said..


reneweconomy.com.au/michael-moores-planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-old-myths-95769/

Heres a counter POV from from the same site Poida linked

i didnt watch it, but if the doco is essentially based on 2012 info as this author rather convincingly claims (check out the google maps of the solar array that "doesn't exist anymore" in the film), then you might be getting somewhat duped.
Or it may just align with your bias - as the article aligns with mine I admit.


Yeah, sure. Mann got the worst examples he could and made a meal out of them. That response is pretty short on substance, but generally does the opposite. Ie takes all the best examples and misleading graphs and showcases them, without highlighting the caveats around the issues. A lot of what he says actually supports Manns points.

The reality is that renewables are not the clean shiny solutions so many people like to push. They have a lot of issues and blind pursuit of renewable solutions without considering all issues on a cost benefit aspect is dumb.

mazdon
1087 posts
29 Apr 2020 4:07PM
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Select to expand quote
Paradox said..



mazdon said..



reneweconomy.com.au/michael-moores-planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-old-myths-95769/

Heres a counter POV from from the same site Poida linked

i didnt watch it, but if the doco is essentially based on 2012 info as this author rather convincingly claims (check out the google maps of the solar array that "doesn't exist anymore" in the film), then you might be getting somewhat duped.
Or it may just align with your bias - as the article aligns with mine I admit.



Yeah, sure. Mann got the worst examples he could and made a meal out of them. That response is pretty short on substance, but generally does the opposite. Ie takes all the best examples and misleading graphs and showcases them, without highlighting the caveats around the issues. A lot of what he says actually supports Manns points.

The reality is that renewables are not the clean shiny solutions so many people like to push. They have a lot of issues and blind pursuit of renewable solutions without considering all issues on a cost benefit aspect is dumb.


agree - blind faith in anything is dumb

holy guacamole
1039 posts
29 Apr 2020 5:20PM
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Select to expand quote
mazdon said..agree - blind faith in anything is dumb

Paradox said..





mazdon said..




reneweconomy.com.au/michael-moores-planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-old-myths-95769/

Heres a counter POV from from the same site Poida linked

i didnt watch it, but if the doco is essentially based on 2012 info as this author rather convincingly claims (check out the google maps of the solar array that "doesn't exist anymore" in the film), then you might be getting somewhat duped.
Or it may just align with your bias - as the article aligns with mine I admit.




Yeah, sure. Mann got the worst examples he could and made a meal out of them. That response is pretty short on substance, but generally does the opposite. Ie takes all the best examples and misleading graphs and showcases them, without highlighting the caveats around the issues. A lot of what he says actually supports Manns points.

The reality is that renewables are not the clean shiny solutions so many people like to push. They have a lot of issues and blind pursuit of renewable solutions without considering all issues on a cost benefit aspect is dumb.

agree - blind faith in anything is dumb

Just like blind faith in nuclear power solving our power problems is probably also dumb.

TonyAbbott
483 posts
30 Apr 2020 7:11AM
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China fires up construction of coal fired power plants. China approved nearly 10 gigawatts (GW) of new coal-fired power generation capacity in this year's first quarter, roughly equal to the amount approved for all of last year, amid a broader scramble to jumpstart an economic hobbled by the Covid-19 epidemic.

When will we wake up that the Communist Party of China is laughing us for not building new coal fired power stations?

Why do Climate Alarmists continually claim that ''renewables are cheaper" when China (the world's largest manufacturer of solar panels and wind turbines) continues to approve and build new coal fired power stations?

Are these alarmists agents of the Chinese Communist Party, or just gullible fools that are the CCP's useful idiots?

www.caixinglobal.com/2020-04-24/china-fires-up-coal-power-plant-construction-101546820.html

Ian K
WA, 3278 posts
30 Apr 2020 8:10AM
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Not to mention the 52 nuclear plants under construction. It looks like both those power sources are still economically viable, or at least a good bet, despite advances in renewables.
www.statista.com/statistics/513671/number-of-under-construction-nuclear-reactors-worldwide/

Paradox
QLD, 970 posts
30 Apr 2020 10:41AM
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Select to expand quote
holy guacamole said..

Just like blind faith in nuclear power solving our power problems is probably also dumb.


100% agree. If you are having a go at me then you have missed the mark.

Mazdon has it right. Bind faith is foolish. All options need to be assessed and balanced equallly.

Seems plenty of countries are doing just that with significant amount of coal, gas and nuclear plants being built everywhere.

AUS1111
WA, 3389 posts
30 Apr 2020 10:41AM
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Select to expand quote
holy guacamole said..
Just like blind faith in nuclear power solving our power problems is probably also dumb.



Just like blind faith in nuclear power NOT solving our power problems is probably also dumb.

Poida
WA, 1834 posts
30 Apr 2020 11:17AM
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Select to expand quote
TonyAbbott said..
China fires up construction of coal fired power plants. China approved nearly 10 gigawatts (GW) of new coal-fired power generation capacity in this year's first quarter, roughly equal to the amount approved for all of last year, amid a broader scramble to jumpstart an economic hobbled by the Covid-19 epidemic.

When will we wake up that the Communist Party of China is laughing us for not building new coal fired power stations?

Why do Climate Alarmists continually claim that ''renewables are cheaper" when China (the world's largest manufacturer of solar panels and wind turbines) continues to approve and build new coal fired power stations?

Are these alarmists agents of the Chinese Communist Party, or just gullible fools that are the CCP's useful idiots?

www.caixinglobal.com/2020-04-24/china-fires-up-coal-power-plant-construction-101546820.html


with all the smog from these coal fired power stations how could you possibly get a solar panel to work
lol

TonyAbbott
483 posts
30 Apr 2020 3:43PM
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Select to expand quote
Poida said..

TonyAbbott said..
China fires up construction of coal fired power plants. China approved nearly 10 gigawatts (GW) of new coal-fired power generation capacity in this year's first quarter, roughly equal to the amount approved for all of last year, amid a broader scramble to jumpstart an economic hobbled by the Covid-19 epidemic.

When will we wake up that the Communist Party of China is laughing us for not building new coal fired power stations?

Why do Climate Alarmists continually claim that ''renewables are cheaper" when China (the world's largest manufacturer of solar panels and wind turbines) continues to approve and build new coal fired power stations?

Are these alarmists agents of the Chinese Communist Party, or just gullible fools that are the CCP's useful idiots?

www.caixinglobal.com/2020-04-24/china-fires-up-coal-power-plant-construction-101546820.html



with all the smog from these coal fired power stations how could you possibly get a solar panel to work
lol


Smog from coal fired plants?

Yeah.....naaahhhh

Maybe from all the dodgy smokey cars and trucks, wood burning, rubbish incineration etc etc.




Poida
WA, 1834 posts
30 Apr 2020 4:01PM
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Select to expand quote
TonyAbbott said..

Poida said..


TonyAbbott said..
China fires up construction of coal fired power plants. China approved nearly 10 gigawatts (GW) of new coal-fired power generation capacity in this year's first quarter, roughly equal to the amount approved for all of last year, amid a broader scramble to jumpstart an economic hobbled by the Covid-19 epidemic.

When will we wake up that the Communist Party of China is laughing us for not building new coal fired power stations?

Why do Climate Alarmists continually claim that ''renewables are cheaper" when China (the world's largest manufacturer of solar panels and wind turbines) continues to approve and build new coal fired power stations?

Are these alarmists agents of the Chinese Communist Party, or just gullible fools that are the CCP's useful idiots?

www.caixinglobal.com/2020-04-24/china-fires-up-coal-power-plant-construction-101546820.html




with all the smog from these coal fired power stations how could you possibly get a solar panel to work
lol



Smog from coal fired plants?

Yeah.....naaahhhh

Maybe from all the dodgy smokey cars and trucks, wood burning, rubbish incineration etc etc.






yeah, just ask the Federal Energy Minister Angus Taylor, he will tell you coal is paying for his gravy train

Poida
WA, 1834 posts
4 May 2020 9:08AM
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Select to expand quote
Paradox said..
Pretty damning vid on renewable energy.

Can't say I disagree with it.



here is another link with a fairly damning review of this youtube movie.

www.filmsforaction.org/articles/6-reasons-why-planet-of-the-humans-is-a-disaster-of-misinformation/?fbclid=IwAR3WYuxDWtiNMEd6ZeUdVf9tMasj52l20YTnukm2bkl43kinEu4PP1EVnM8

The main ploy by climate deniers is being called out:
FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt): A disinformation strategy used to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"This place is heating up" started by beefarmer