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Universal Basic Income

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Created by mazdon 2 months ago, 28 Mar 2020
Bara
WA, 647 posts
30 Mar 2020 10:02AM
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kk said..
The pension does not easily pay 3 lots of rates.

Funny how people as individuals and small businesses are being told to make sacrifices.

But local government steams ahead as though nothing has happened, snouts firmly in the trough.

All registrations and license fees still due and payable.

All utilities still due and payable.

And to make matters worse there is still talk of increasing these government charges in the next billing cycle, because they have plans "you know"

But the local bloke that just opened up a small bar and his landlord are told to suffer for the greater good, but don't forget to keep that licensee fee paid up and those rates paid.


yeah there is a growing divide between the public servants sitting safe and sound while the real economy stalls. For the sake of social cohesion the public servants are going to have to take a pay cut but i dont see that happening without a fight.

I have rellies in public service and the mention of a paycut even with all this going on just gets a chuckle. Local govts have been told to go into debt to keep all their staff.

On the other hand my in laws are in a similar boat to gboots with 0 income but a couple of rental properties they were living on - cant get the pension, cant sell the properties and draining the cash at a scary rate now both tenants have lost their jobs.

2 different worlds.

bjw
NSW, 3183 posts
30 Mar 2020 2:41PM
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A 30k universal income could exceed the total income the government receives currenty. (about $ 500b).

Rubbish idea.

Chris 249
NSW, 2451 posts
30 Mar 2020 2:48PM
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kk said..
The pension does not easily pay 3 lots of rates.

Funny how people as individuals and small businesses are being told to make sacrifices.

But local government steams ahead as though nothing has happened, snouts firmly in the trough.

All registrations and license fees still due and payable.

All utilities still due and payable.

And to make matters worse there is still talk of increasing these government charges in the next billing cycle, because they have plans "you know"

But the local bloke that just opened up a small bar and his landlord are told to suffer for the greater good, but don't forget to keep that licensee fee paid up and those rates paid.


I worked for local government for one contract. It was just about the most impressive medium-size business I've ever dealt with. Plenty of people were working as hard, or harder, than in private enterprise. There were no snouts in any trough.

They may still be asking for fees, but that's because people still have to be paid. Are you going to expect the child care staff to just starve because fees are not coming through? Will the guys who run my local drinking water supply suddenly not need to buy petrol or lunch? The man who gets rung up when there's a mangy aggressive dog running free and snapping at kids - does he suddenly do it for love while spending his savings on staying alive?

bazz61
QLD, 3186 posts
30 Mar 2020 2:21PM
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Bara said..

kk said..
The pension does not easily pay 3 lots of rates.

Funny how people as individuals and small businesses are being told to make sacrifices.

But local government steams ahead as though nothing has happened, snouts firmly in the trough.

All registrations and license fees still due and payable.

All utilities still due and payable.

And to make matters worse there is still talk of increasing these government charges in the next billing cycle, because they have plans "you know"

But the local bloke that just opened up a small bar and his landlord are told to suffer for the greater good, but don't forget to keep that licensee fee paid up and those rates paid.



yeah there is a growing divide between the public servants sitting safe and sound while the real economy stalls. For the sake of social cohesion the public servants are going to have to take a pay cut but i dont see that happening without a fight.

I have rellies in public service and the mention of a paycut even with all this going on just gets a chuckle. Local govts have been told to go into debt to keep all their staff.

On the other hand my in laws are in a similar boat to gboots with 0 income but a couple of rental properties they were living on - cant get the pension, cant sell the properties and draining the cash at a scary rate now both tenants have lost their jobs.

2 different worlds.


your right they won't take a pay cut , but what the council will & has done is retrench then rehire using labour hire , this is what Miners are doing , construction , airlines , Gold coast Council etc
This is what the Cambell Neuman gov did in Brisbane , also brought the CBD into panic , of course the Labour hire industry is well connected with the Lieberals .
No doubt this will repeated in a few months time when the QLD Labor gov is thrown out .
www.facebook.com/notes/keep-the-lnp-out/list-of-cuts-sorry-about-the-formatting-cut-and-paste-job-from-a-word-file/319598334814080/

Bara
WA, 647 posts
30 Mar 2020 12:52PM
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Chris 249 said..

kk said..
The pension does not easily pay 3 lots of rates.

Funny how people as individuals and small businesses are being told to make sacrifices.

But local government steams ahead as though nothing has happened, snouts firmly in the trough.

All registrations and license fees still due and payable.

All utilities still due and payable.

And to make matters worse there is still talk of increasing these government charges in the next billing cycle, because they have plans "you know"

But the local bloke that just opened up a small bar and his landlord are told to suffer for the greater good, but don't forget to keep that licensee fee paid up and those rates paid.



I worked for local government for one contract. It was just about the most impressive medium-size business I've ever dealt with. Plenty of people were working as hard, or harder, than in private enterprise. There were no snouts in any trough.

They may still be asking for fees, but that's because people still have to be paid. Are you going to expect the child care staff to just starve because fees are not coming through? Will the guys who run my local drinking water supply suddenly not need to buy petrol or lunch? The man who gets rung up when there's a mangy aggressive dog running free and snapping at kids - does he suddenly do it for love while spending his savings on staying alive?


no ones gonna starve fark me why the extreme BS???

they could take a paycut in line with the rest of the economy though. That could flow on to reduced rates and fees while the real economy needs it. Wanna argue how that cant be justified because they are so well run? Im all ears.....

Bara
WA, 647 posts
30 Mar 2020 12:58PM
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bazz61 said..



your right they won't take a pay cut , but what the council will & has done is retrench then rehire using labour hire , this is what Miners are doing , construction , airlines , Gold coast Council etc
This is what the Cambell Neuman gov did in Brisbane , also brought the CBD into panic , of course the Labour hire industry is well connected with the Lieberals .
No doubt this will repeated in a few months time when the QLD Labor gov is thrown out .
www.facebook.com/notes/keep-the-lnp-out/list-of-cuts-sorry-about-the-formatting-cut-and-paste-job-from-a-word-file/319598334814080/


that wouldnt achieve much bazz. rates would stay the same/keep going up etc.

The use of the labour hire companies is used to help stop the cronyism by making the hiring more independent. Not a huge fan of it but anything that gets rid of old mate hiring his kids and nephews on cushy gigs is a lesser evil i reckon and its way worse in QLD than anywhere Ive worked.

Theres generations of families all working in the same depts you know that right?

Chris 249
NSW, 2451 posts
30 Mar 2020 4:33PM
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Bara said..

Chris 249 said..


kk said..
The pension does not easily pay 3 lots of rates.

Funny how people as individuals and small businesses are being told to make sacrifices.

But local government steams ahead as though nothing has happened, snouts firmly in the trough.

All registrations and license fees still due and payable.

All utilities still due and payable.

And to make matters worse there is still talk of increasing these government charges in the next billing cycle, because they have plans "you know"

But the local bloke that just opened up a small bar and his landlord are told to suffer for the greater good, but don't forget to keep that licensee fee paid up and those rates paid.




I worked for local government for one contract. It was just about the most impressive medium-size business I've ever dealt with. Plenty of people were working as hard, or harder, than in private enterprise. There were no snouts in any trough.

They may still be asking for fees, but that's because people still have to be paid. Are you going to expect the child care staff to just starve because fees are not coming through? Will the guys who run my local drinking water supply suddenly not need to buy petrol or lunch? The man who gets rung up when there's a mangy aggressive dog running free and snapping at kids - does he suddenly do it for love while spending his savings on staying alive?



no ones gonna starve fark me why the extreme BS???

they could take a paycut in line with the rest of the economy though. That could flow on to reduced rates and fees while the real economy needs it. Wanna argue how that cant be justified because they are so well run? Im all ears.....


The reference to starving was just a turn of phrase, just as the cliche "snouts in the trough" or "I'm all ears". Unless you are a remarkable individual, you are not just all ears, but also have fingers to type with and eyes to read with. If you and KK can use rhetoric then why can't others?

Sure, maybe the council staff can take a pay cut. However, they still have to pay people and they have to get some money from somewhere. They also employ quite a few people who are already pretty poorly paid, like childcare workers at around $22.80 per hour. How much do you want to cut their wages? Are you going to stop Meals on Wheels? Are you going to tell the health inspectors not to work at this time?

I'm not sure how many councils you have worked with or for how long and I didn't say that I was an expert or that they are all great or that any of them are perfect. I made one observation and I'll stand by it - it was pretty damn well run and I have no reason to be biased when I say that.

evlPanda
NSW, 8919 posts
30 Mar 2020 6:49PM
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Chris 249 said..
So if the UBI is $30k and the tax is 15%,







Try $20K UBI, and 50% flat tax rate. It is surprisingly close to individuals' current income and tax rates. (I'll see if I can find an old spreadsheet) That's just some numbers off-the-top, no fine tuning.

Found the old spreadsheet (from 2014). Was based on 2014 tax rates vs an UBI of $20K and 50% flat tax rate:


Note the 'wage' columns for both Progressive Tax and Flat Tax models. The take home is remarkably similar.

Again, this is not 'fine tuned' at all, just a dumb $20K + 50%. That simple.

Part of the beauty of a flat tax rate is that everyone gets a 50% return on deductible items, not just people in the top bracket.

---

I've updated, added parameters, and here's the shared link. (copy/save as... "your own sheet")

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zymOer9jpX59-9Lt8XIxkM6hvzw4SRNj9PLOeKEKzDE/edit?usp=sharing

mazdon
1087 posts
30 Mar 2020 4:30PM
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evlPanda said..

Chris 249 said..
So if the UBI is $30k and the tax is 15%,








Try $20K UBI, and 50% flat tax rate. It is surprisingly close to individuals' current income and tax rates. (I'll see if I can find an old spreadsheet) That's just some numbers off-the-top, no fine tuning.

Found the old spreadsheet (from 2014). Was based on 2014 tax rates vs an UBI of $20K and 50% flat tax rate:


Note the 'wage' columns for both Progressive Tax and Flat Tax models. The take home is remarkably similar.

Again, this is not 'fine tuned' at all, just a dumb $20K + 50%. That simple.

Part of the beauty of a flat tax rate is that everyone gets a 50% return on deductible items, not just people in the top bracket.

---

I've updated, added parameters, and here's the shared link. (copy/save as... "your own sheet")

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zymOer9jpX59-9Lt8XIxkM6hvzw4SRNj9PLOeKEKzDE/edit?usp=sharing


Wow - that is surprisingly even. Talk of 50% tax rates would be political suicide probably, but if they could demonstrate to people the parity in take home, it might get some traction. Cheers

mazdon
1087 posts
30 Mar 2020 4:37PM
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Select to expand quote
Bara said..

Chris 249 said..


kk said..
The pension does not easily pay 3 lots of rates.

Funny how people as individuals and small businesses are being told to make sacrifices.

But local government steams ahead as though nothing has happened, snouts firmly in the trough.

All registrations and license fees still due and payable.

All utilities still due and payable.

And to make matters worse there is still talk of increasing these government charges in the next billing cycle, because they have plans "you know"

But the local bloke that just opened up a small bar and his landlord are told to suffer for the greater good, but don't forget to keep that licensee fee paid up and those rates paid.




I worked for local government for one contract. It was just about the most impressive medium-size business I've ever dealt with. Plenty of people were working as hard, or harder, than in private enterprise. There were no snouts in any trough.

They may still be asking for fees, but that's because people still have to be paid. Are you going to expect the child care staff to just starve because fees are not coming through? Will the guys who run my local drinking water supply suddenly not need to buy petrol or lunch? The man who gets rung up when there's a mangy aggressive dog running free and snapping at kids - does he suddenly do it for love while spending his savings on staying alive?



no ones gonna starve fark me why the extreme BS???

they could take a paycut in line with the rest of the economy though. That could flow on to reduced rates and fees while the real economy needs it. Wanna argue how that cant be justified because they are so well run? Im all ears.....


Public servant is such a broad term, and then there is local, state and fed gov also further to Chris example, maybe you could clarify Bara?

im not sure it's fair at all to ask doctors, nurses, teachers, firies, police, main roads engineers, contracts officers etc who are on public sector contracts right now to take a pay cut. That might even deepen the cash flow crisis further?!

Also, they don't get big bonuses and pay hikes when times are good, but maybe they opt for that for the security when times are tough?
so complex

Bara
WA, 647 posts
31 Mar 2020 8:45AM
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mazdon said..


Public servant is such a broad term, and then there is local, state and fed gov also further to Chris example, maybe you could clarify Bara?

im not sure it's fair at all to ask doctors, nurses, teachers, firies, police, main roads engineers, contracts officers etc who are on public sector contracts right now to take a pay cut. That might even deepen the cash flow crisis further?!

Also, they don't get big bonuses and pay hikes when times are good, but maybe they opt for that for the security when times are tough?
so complex


yeah ok some public servants are essential therefore all public servants should be treated as essential??

Dont think so

For the ones that arent theres gonna be between 1 and 2m unemployed and plenty of those would be happy to take a public service role for 30% less than the current pencil pushers doing it.

They wont be given a chance though.

Nah not buying your line about they are payed less but have job security either. The people i know in state and local govt are payed well and get plenty of perks and even bonuses. They have their cake and eat it too.

My favourite was a local govt CEO here who had an independent review of his package done where they compared his salary to a CEO of an equivalent size company (3000 employees) Came back he should be paid 1.2million which he then used to get a pay packet of 600k. ie 2 and a half times the local govt minister and more than the PM!

That then flowed down to his reports and so on. When the councilors queried it they were accused of bullying and the CEO went on stress leave (on full pay of course).


Harrow
NSW, 3384 posts
31 Mar 2020 12:55PM
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Select to expand quote
mazdon said..Wow - that is surprisingly even. Talk of 50% tax rates would be political suicide probably, but if they could demonstrate to people the parity in take home, it might get some traction. Cheers

Most people can't think objectively about stuff like this. They have a preconceived idea, and nothing will move them. Even with real data after the fact they can remain in denial for years.

Bananabender
QLD, 1117 posts
31 Mar 2020 3:34PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
bazz61 said..

Bara said..


kk said..
The pension does not easily pay 3 lots of rates.

Funny how people as individuals and small businesses are being told to make sacrifices.

But local government steams ahead as though nothing has happened, snouts firmly in the trough.

All registrations and license fees still due and payable.

All utilities still due and payable.

And to make matters worse there is still talk of increasing these government charges in the next billing cycle, because they have plans "you know"

But the local bloke that just opened up a small bar and his landlord are told to suffer for the greater good, but don't forget to keep that licensee fee paid up and those rates paid.




yeah there is a growing divide between the public servants sitting safe and sound while the real economy stalls. For the sake of social cohesion the public servants are going to have to take a pay cut but i dont see that happening without a fight.

I have rellies in public service and the mention of a paycut even with all this going on just gets a chuckle. Local govts have been told to go into debt to keep all their staff.

On the other hand my in laws are in a similar boat to gboots with 0 income but a couple of rental properties they were living on - cant get the pension, cant sell the properties and draining the cash at a scary rate now both tenants have lost their jobs.

2 different worlds.



your right they won't take a pay cut , but what the council will & has done is retrench then rehire using labour hire , this is what Miners are doing , construction , airlines , Gold coast Council etc
This is what the Cambell Neuman gov did in Brisbane , also brought the CBD into panic , of course the Labour hire industry is well connected with the Lieberals .
No doubt this will repeated in a few months time when the QLD Labor gov is thrown out .
www.facebook.com/notes/keep-the-lnp-out/list-of-cuts-sorry-about-the-formatting-cut-and-paste-job-from-a-word-file/319598334814080/

I cant believe you have gone there Bazz.
I'll only quote names of multi multi millionaires and you follow the trail re labour hire by laybor and the cost to you and me
1. Therese Rein
2. Sarina Russo

Chris 249
NSW, 2451 posts
31 Mar 2020 4:49PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
evlPanda said..

Chris 249 said..
So if the UBI is $30k and the tax is 15%,








Try $20K UBI, and 50% flat tax rate. It is surprisingly close to individuals' current income and tax rates. (I'll see if I can find an old spreadsheet) That's just some numbers off-the-top, no fine tuning.

Found the old spreadsheet (from 2014). Was based on 2014 tax rates vs an UBI of $20K and 50% flat tax rate:


Note the 'wage' columns for both Progressive Tax and Flat Tax models. The take home is remarkably similar.

Again, this is not 'fine tuned' at all, just a dumb $20K + 50%. That simple.

Part of the beauty of a flat tax rate is that everyone gets a 50% return on deductible items, not just people in the top bracket.

---

I've updated, added parameters, and here's the shared link. (copy/save as... "your own sheet")

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zymOer9jpX59-9Lt8XIxkM6hvzw4SRNj9PLOeKEKzDE/edit?usp=sharing


That is interesting indeed. Thanks

Chris 249
NSW, 2451 posts
31 Mar 2020 5:06PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Bara said..


mazdon said..


Public servant is such a broad term, and then there is local, state and fed gov also further to Chris example, maybe you could clarify Bara?

im not sure it's fair at all to ask doctors, nurses, teachers, firies, police, main roads engineers, contracts officers etc who are on public sector contracts right now to take a pay cut. That might even deepen the cash flow crisis further?!

Also, they don't get big bonuses and pay hikes when times are good, but maybe they opt for that for the security when times are tough?
so complex




yeah ok some public servants are essential therefore all public servants should be treated as essential??

Dont think so

For the ones that arent theres gonna be between 1 and 2m unemployed and plenty of those would be happy to take a public service role for 30% less than the current pencil pushers doing it.

They wont be given a chance though.

Nah not buying your line about they are payed less but have job security either. The people i know in state and local govt are payed well and get plenty of perks and even bonuses. They have their cake and eat it too.

My favourite was a local govt CEO here who had an independent review of his package done where they compared his salary to a CEO of an equivalent size company (3000 employees) Came back he should be paid 1.2million which he then used to get a pay packet of 600k. ie 2 and a half times the local govt minister and more than the PM!

That then flowed down to his reports and so on. When the councilors queried it they were accused of bullying and the CEO went on stress leave (on full pay of course).





Funny, on another forum I go to there is a private-sector WA mining engineer who was saying that if he moved into government work he'd take a 30% or so pay cut and the permanency isn't worth it.

If you can look at "the people you know" then I'll do the same thing. I know people who took a 10-50% cut to move to the public sector. Sure, many in Canberra are overpaid for what they do but people with the same qualifications will normally earn more in the private sector than they do in the public sector. By the way, even 10% of federal public servants in Canberra these days are on contracts.

Even your own example shows that the independent reviewer said that the council CEO should be paid twice what he ended up getting. How does that show that he was overpaid in the first place? How much do you reckon you should get paid to run an organisation of 3000 people?

The typical miner in Oz works for the private sector and earns twice what a nurse, normally working under government funding, earns. Are you saying that the nurse should take a cut to make up the pay of someone who earns $60k more than they do most of the time?

By the way, I was a sole trader or small business employee for about 90% of my working life so I have zero reason to be biased.

Little Jon
NSW, 2056 posts
31 Mar 2020 7:41PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Bara said..

kk said..
The pension does not easily pay 3 lots of rates.

Funny how people as individuals and small businesses are being told to make sacrifices.

But local government steams ahead as though nothing has happened, snouts firmly in the trough.

All registrations and license fees still due and payable.

All utilities still due and payable.

And to make matters worse there is still talk of increasing these government charges in the next billing cycle, because they have plans "you know"

But the local bloke that just opened up a small bar and his landlord are told to suffer for the greater good, but don't forget to keep that licensee fee paid up and those rates paid.



yeah there is a growing divide between the public servants sitting safe and sound while the real economy stalls. For the sake of social cohesion the public servants are going to have to take a pay cut but i dont see that happening without a fight.

I have rellies in public service and the mention of a paycut even with all this going on just gets a chuckle. Local govts have been told to go into debt to keep all their staff.

On the other hand my in laws are in a similar boat to gboots with 0 income but a couple of rental properties they were living on - cant get the pension, cant sell the properties and draining the cash at a scary rate now both tenants have lost their jobs.

2 different worlds.


It may be hard to argue the doctors and nurses taking huge personal safety risks treating covid patients should get a pay cut

Little Jon
NSW, 2056 posts
31 Mar 2020 8:05PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Chris 249 said..

Bara said..



mazdon said..


Public servant is such a broad term, and then there is local, state and fed gov also further to Chris example, maybe you could clarify Bara?

im not sure it's fair at all to ask doctors, nurses, teachers, firies, police, main roads engineers, contracts officers etc who are on public sector contracts right now to take a pay cut. That might even deepen the cash flow crisis further?!

Also, they don't get big bonuses and pay hikes when times are good, but maybe they opt for that for the security when times are tough?
so complex





yeah ok some public servants are essential therefore all public servants should be treated as essential??

Dont think so

For the ones that arent theres gonna be between 1 and 2m unemployed and plenty of those would be happy to take a public service role for 30% less than the current pencil pushers doing it.

They wont be given a chance though.

Nah not buying your line about they are payed less but have job security either. The people i know in state and local govt are payed well and get plenty of perks and even bonuses. They have their cake and eat it too.

My favourite was a local govt CEO here who had an independent review of his package done where they compared his salary to a CEO of an equivalent size company (3000 employees) Came back he should be paid 1.2million which he then used to get a pay packet of 600k. ie 2 and a half times the local govt minister and more than the PM!

That then flowed down to his reports and so on. When the councilors queried it they were accused of bullying and the CEO went on stress leave (on full pay of course).






Funny, on another forum I go to there is a private-sector WA mining engineer who was saying that if he moved into government work he'd take a 30% or so pay cut and the permanency isn't worth it.

If you can look at "the people you know" then I'll do the same thing. I know people who took a 10-50% cut to move to the public sector. Sure, many in Canberra are overpaid for what they do but people with the same qualifications will normally earn more in the private sector than they do in the public sector. By the way, even 10% of federal public servants in Canberra these days are on contracts.

Even your own example shows that the independent reviewer said that the council CEO should be paid twice what he ended up getting. How does that show that he was overpaid in the first place? How much do you reckon you should get paid to run an organisation of 3000 people?

The typical miner in Oz works for the private sector and earns twice what a nurse, normally working under government funding, earns. Are you saying that the nurse should take a cut to make up the pay of someone who earns $60k more than they do most of the time?

By the way, I was a sole trader or small business employee for about 90% of my working life so I have zero reason to be biased.


Yeah my ex's family included a well off builder who said he doesn't get out of bed for less than $1,000 a day and that was about 15 years ago

Mobydisc
NSW, 8865 posts
31 Mar 2020 9:17PM
Thumbs Up

Anyway with quantitative easement a very generous UBI is possible. The only drawback is that generous income will shortly not even pay for a loaf of bread.

High inflation is going to hit us soon once all the bills the Federal Government is accumulating have to paid. A bond issue paid by the RBA will keep funding the promises and at the same time destroy savings.

petermac33
WA, 6049 posts
31 Mar 2020 6:35PM
Thumbs Up

Buying physical gold or silver is likely the best strategy for protecting savings.

I remember 20-30 years ago a few South American counties experienced hyperinflation.

Method to the madness - a way to bring down the middle classes to subsistence living perhaps.

Pugwash
WA, 7142 posts
31 Mar 2020 8:19PM
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Select to expand quote
petermac33 said..
Buying physical gold or silver is likely the best strategy for protecting savings.

I remember 20-30 years ago a few South American counties experienced hyperinflation.

Method to the madness - a way to bring down the middle classes to subsistence living perhaps.


For transparency, it's probably worth mentioning Pete is not an economist, financial advisor, broker or resources industry employee. Pete is an anti-vaxer, flat earther, chemtrailer, moon landing denier and 911 truther.

So, how has silver performed since you started promoting it Pete? Down by 30, 40%??

Gold on the other hand... hanging around record AUD highs.

DYOR.

Pugs.

FormulaNova
NSW, 10847 posts
1 Apr 2020 12:19AM
Thumbs Up

It was funny watching one of those doomsday preppers shows and a guy there was buying silver as he knew that paper money would be worth nothing. Then he 'bartered' that silver for other goods. Sort of like the way people exchange goods for a paper note of a nominal value.. I didn't quite see what he was gaining in the short term by doing that, as he was just using the same values.

Hmmm.... even if the supermarkets had been closed down and there was no toilet paper available, I still wouldn't be dying for some silver. It makes very expensive toilet paper and is very hard to digest.

eppo
WA, 7525 posts
31 Mar 2020 9:27PM
Thumbs Up

Hyperinflation. Maybe. There's a case for it. There has also been times in history where prices went no where. There's a strong counter argument that has a lengthy period of low interest rates and inflation negligible as well. But I can't be bothered explaining it. But I wouldn't prescribe to a definite hyperinflation outcome nor hoarding gold and silver. When markets crash (and you ain't seen nothing yet) gold and silver goes with them as well. Has Do e every cycle as people have to sell what they can to meet their margin calls. Creates over supply. So don't go sitting in your Aladens cave thinking your all good on your pile of gold stroking your guarding dragon. It's not that simple.

Bara
WA, 647 posts
31 Mar 2020 10:39PM
Thumbs Up

Well blow me down with a feather but QLD public servants to get an across the board 10% pay RISE and a cash bonus in the middle of our worst economic slowdown in history.

Amazing audacity
2 different worlds in oz these days.

inflation hyperinflation stagflation - all are possible outcomes. what we are really talking about is currency devaluation whether it turns up in the CPI or not.

Alarmingly using our newly created QE program to fund public sector pay rises is eerily similar to what happened in Greece a few years back - we all know how that ended right?

petermac33
WA, 6049 posts
31 Mar 2020 11:47PM
Thumbs Up

After this is over I see bank bail-ins a very real possibility.

www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-greece-debt-crisis-3305525

Little Jon
NSW, 2056 posts
1 Apr 2020 7:50AM
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Select to expand quote
petermac33 said..
After this is over I see bank bail-ins a very real possibility.

www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-greece-debt-crisis-3305525


Yeah if someone is in too much debt, you don't solve the problem by them taking on even more debt

Little Jon
NSW, 2056 posts
1 Apr 2020 7:51AM
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We already have a universal basic income, its social security like the dole and pensions

Little Jon
NSW, 2056 posts
1 Apr 2020 7:52AM
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Select to expand quote
Bara said..
Well blow me down with a feather but QLD public servants to get an across the board 10% pay RISE and a cash bonus in the middle of our worst economic slowdown in history.

Amazing audacity
2 different worlds in oz these days.

inflation hyperinflation stagflation - all are possible outcomes. what we are really talking about is currency devaluation whether it turns up in the CPI or not.

Alarmingly using our newly created QE program to fund public sector pay rises is eerily similar to what happened in Greece a few years back - we all know how that ended right?



You will probably find the 10% is spread over 5 years and its 2% a year and plenty in the private sector will get more than that

Bananabender
QLD, 1117 posts
1 Apr 2020 8:25AM
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Select to expand quote
Little Jon said..
Bara said..
Well blow me down with a feather but QLD public servants to get an across the board 10% pay RISE and a cash bonus in the middle of our worst economic slowdown in history.

Amazing audacity
2 different worlds in oz these days.

inflation hyperinflation stagflation - all are possible outcomes. what we are really talking about is currency devaluation whether it turns up in the CPI or not.

Alarmingly using our newly created QE program to fund public sector pay rises is eerily similar to what happened in Greece a few years back - we all know how that ended right?



You will probably find the 10% is spread over 5 years and its 2% a year and plenty in the private sector will get more than that



Its a blatant cash splash with the State election in Oct. The way I read it its 2.5% p.a . Effective 3.5% ,whatever that means , plus a up front bonus of $1250 to all govt employees under ranking 8.
Qld. Labor is thanking their stars for the current crises. They have cancelled parliament until Sept.
one month before the elections and escaped scrutiny . This cash splash will backfire on them.

Bara
WA, 647 posts
1 Apr 2020 8:05AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Bananabender said..

Little Jon said..

Bara said..
Well blow me down with a feather but QLD public servants to get an across the board 10% pay RISE and a cash bonus in the middle of our worst economic slowdown in history.

Amazing audacity
2 different worlds in oz these days.

inflation hyperinflation stagflation - all are possible outcomes. what we are really talking about is currency devaluation whether it turns up in the CPI or not.

Alarmingly using our newly created QE program to fund public sector pay rises is eerily similar to what happened in Greece a few years back - we all know how that ended right?




You will probably find the 10% is spread over 5 years and its 2% a year and plenty in the private sector will get more than that




Its a blatant cash splash with the State election in Oct. The way I read it its 2.5% p.a . Effective 3.5% ,whatever that means , plus a up front bonus of $1250 to all govt employees under ranking 8.
Qld. Labor is thanking their stars for the current crises. They have cancelled parliament until Sept.
one month before the elections and escaped scrutiny . This cash splash will backfire on them.


A cash splash funded by QE money printing ala greece in her heyday. I hope you are right and they are turfed - we dont need other state and local govts thinking this is ok - its an economic death spiral. Once the link between spending and funding is broken we are all screwed.

Like i mentioned local govt have been told to take on debt to keep all staff but debt to fund pay rises is a whole other level of dumb.

BTW littleJ you seem to fail to understand basic economics - if a private sector employee gets a payrise its usually out of profits ie they have added value to the economy so theres a natural check to unproductive investment. Public sector pay rises dont have that check and if the new normal is to fund them with money printing then we have debt funding unproductive spending and thats a scary path to be heading down

bazz61
QLD, 3186 posts
1 Apr 2020 11:30AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Bananabender said..

Little Jon said..

Bara said..
Well blow me down with a feather but QLD public servants to get an across the board 10% pay RISE and a cash bonus in the middle of our worst economic slowdown in history.

Amazing audacity
2 different worlds in oz these days.

inflation hyperinflation stagflation - all are possible outcomes. what we are really talking about is currency devaluation whether it turns up in the CPI or not.

Alarmingly using our newly created QE program to fund public sector pay rises is eerily similar to what happened in Greece a few years back - we all know how that ended right?




You will probably find the 10% is spread over 5 years and its 2% a year and plenty in the private sector will get more than that




Its a blatant cash splash with the State election in Oct. The way I read it its 2.5% p.a . Effective 3.5% ,whatever that means , plus a up front bonus of $1250 to all govt employees under ranking 8.
Qld. Labor is thanking their stars for the current crises. They have cancelled parliament until Sept.
one month before the elections and escaped scrutiny . This cash splash will backfire on them.


yeah shocking ...much like this ....


Sport Australia is the independent body which ranked applicants for the $100 million sport grants program on merit, and provided recommendations to the office of the then-minister, Bridget McKenzie.The government has been accused of ignoring those recommendations, and instead systematically doling out the cash to projects based in seats it wanted to win at last year's federal election.



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"Universal Basic Income" started by mazdon