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Wing Foil v Kite Foil

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Created by Piros 3 months ago, 27 Feb 2020
Piros
QLD, 5850 posts
27 Feb 2020 1:37PM
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Just interested to hear everyone's opinion now on the Wing Foil v Kite Foiling . Love it or hate it , lets hear it . It's been a big year since it's inception with new manufacturers popping up everywhere , Nasih just released a whole range and now Duotone is releasing two new ranges , Ultra light boom less & light weight boom models in 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 & 7m . So that says to me the market is big but I'm not seeing that many wings on the water (on the Gold Coast ) Kite foiling will always have the light wind advantage but with the new bigger wings that gap is getting smaller. So keen to hear from who's tried it or those that just don't like the idea. I myself have sold all my kite gear as I just haven't used since taking prone/sup & wing foiling , I also don't surf my short board or paddle a normal sup either , anyone else hung their old gear since getting bit by the foil bug..

simonp
183 posts
28 Feb 2020 6:15AM
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There's a place for both sports. I have no idea how big wing-foiling will get yet. My guess would be the numbers will even out about the same as kite foilers but perhaps less than the twin-tip and surfboard crowd.

Kite foiling - Pro
More efficient, less wind to get going.
Faster.
More fun (Debatable)?

Wing foiling Pro
Safer, less requirement for steady wind, less ways to hurt yourself.
Simpler, faster to setup.
More mellow.

I'm going to end up doing both, depending upon wind conditions and location. Winds can be quite squally where I live and with winging it's bring it on, rather than I better sit this one out / change kite.

Kamikuza
QLD, 5178 posts
28 Feb 2020 8:41AM
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Kite foil +
Smaller board, smaller kite.

Gorgo
VIC, 4366 posts
28 Feb 2020 2:02PM
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I have bought a GoFoil and Sunova crossover to pursue foil surfing, and wing surfing when the wings get a bit more sorted. I haven't used it much.

I get out with my kitefoiling gear almost every day. I think it will be hard for a wing surfer to compete with the range and speed and accessibility and versatility of the the kite foil. Aside from the overall performance, it is very convenient to have a small foil and short board that does everything and fits in the boot of the car.

I have been watching our local wing foiling crew and they have been progressing slowly. They've found a beach where they're not getting clobbered by shore breaks and we've had some pretty decent winds for them to get going on. It's a bit of fun to check them out during a quick coast run on the kite foil. They're so slow.

It's worth pointing out we are in Melbourne and ride on Port Phillip bay. It's an hour or so drive to a decent surf break. Things might be different if we had ready access to clean surf.

RAL INN
VIC, 2834 posts
28 Feb 2020 5:13PM
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I've elected for this cause I'm useless at pumping up onto foil and 94kg and will use my Windfoil/Supfoil board which is not in the light category.
can't wait for it to be ready for dispatch.
let that newby fun begin again.

StephenZ
VIC, 10 posts
28 Feb 2020 6:04PM
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Select to expand quote
simonp said.

Kite foiling - Pro
More efficient, less wind to get going.
Faster.
More fun (Debatable)?

Wing foiling Pro
Safer, less requirement for steady wind, less ways to hurt yourself.
Simpler, faster to setup.
More mellow.

I'm going to end up doing both, depending upon wind conditions and location. Winds can be quite squally where I live and with winging it's bring it on, rather than I better sit this one out / change kite.



Totally agree that there's a place for both of them.

Here's my pros:
Kite:
Smaller kite
Smaller board
Portable, travel friendly
Easier logistics (generally)
Better lightwind options
Faster (if you want this)
More variety in foil choices, big, small, slow, fast etc, and probably riding styles too.
Quicker, easier starts after crashes
Easier to deal with shorebreak launches
Easier to deal with white water (as long as kite is in the air)
Good for slower moving crumbly onshore waves in strong wind

Wing (disclaimer I'm a beginner at this):
Safer setup for riding in offshore conditions
Can ride a wave straight upwind :)
Tight, sketchy, gusty launches
Can ride bigger faster waves in light wind
Better for downwinding especially riding further offshore
Easier, safer self rescue
No lines to get tangled and tangled in
Probably easier to learn if you can't already kite

I'm a decent kite foiler, and just taken up winging. I don't yet know if it's for me, but I'm keen to find out!

kobo
NSW, 214 posts
29 Feb 2020 8:55AM
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Interesting....I have 10 surfboards sitting in the shed collecting dust from short boards to mals.
Since starting foiling I haven't ridden anything else, started out prone ,then kite , love the prone the most but just bought a 4m wasp and looking for a DW board.Enjoyed the kite foiling as you can get up and go in 10 kns but the kite is a hassle when trying to DW so hence the wingding.

Had my first surf yesterday on a surfboard after turning up to the local and it was good for surfing but not foiling ,and could not believe how much trouble I had , seems my brain is rewired for foiling , so anyhow had a few waves on a mates board then went back in put my smaller front wing on the foil and paddled back out.

I wondering if the foil fetish is going to wear off, I hope not and I'm not sure why, maybe there is so much to learn like pumping and DW and you can't master it easily and get bored quickly and there always seems to be waves that you can ride without any hassles but nothing beats the speed and glide of a foil and I can't seem to get enough of that!

emmafoils
145 posts
1 Mar 2020 6:45AM
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The more I consider this, I have to think that ultimately for wave foiling, the wing will be better. If you want to ride the wave energy, the wing will get out of the way much easier than the kite will.

Kamikuza
QLD, 5178 posts
1 Mar 2020 8:48AM
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emmafoils said..
The more I consider this, I have to think that ultimately for wave foiling, the wing will be better. If you want to ride the wave energy, the wing will get out of the way much easier than the kite will.


Until you ride over the wing always fun to watch

stevet73
NSW, 172 posts
1 Mar 2020 5:13PM
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Surfed a long time, kited a fairly long time, about 2 years into foil (sup/prone). Wasn't sure about the wing ding but then I watched Hawaii guys cruising out then just foil waves in. Sold. You just don't have that freedom with the kite. For me, to be able to completely depower the wing ding and foil surf swells (especially given the exponential crowd factor and looking for late 40's longevity), too good to pass up. I've only just had first session on the wing ding and, whilst yet another thing to adapt to, it should come reasonably quick, and the reward for the long haul froth factor is undeniable.

hilly
WA, 5254 posts
3 Mar 2020 12:12PM
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Select to expand quote
stevet73 said..
Surfed a long time, kited a fairly long time, about 2 years into foil (sup/prone). Wasn't sure about the wing ding but then I watched Hawaii guys cruising out then just foil waves in. Sold. You just don't have that freedom with the kite. For me, to be able to completely depower the wing ding and foil surf swells (especially given the exponential crowd factor and looking for late 40's longevity), too good to pass up. I've only just had first session on the wing ding and, whilst yet another thing to adapt to, it should come reasonably quick, and the reward for the long haul froth factor is undeniable.



Agree with all that. Wingding is great fun.

However, wings are not very strong so if you get rolled even by a small wave the wing is toast. Either sliced and diced by the foil or the attachment point causes the leading edge to break as happened to me last weekend.




simonp
183 posts
4 Mar 2020 4:44AM
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Another plus of wing-foiling is that it is more exercise. My shoulder muscles are getting bigger. Not like windsurfing days though, but I was in my 20's back then.

Kamikuza
QLD, 5178 posts
4 Mar 2020 7:05AM
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Select to expand quote
hilly said..

stevet73 said..
Surfed a long time, kited a fairly long time, about 2 years into foil (sup/prone). Wasn't sure about the wing ding but then I watched Hawaii guys cruising out then just foil waves in. Sold. You just don't have that freedom with the kite. For me, to be able to completely depower the wing ding and foil surf swells (especially given the exponential crowd factor and looking for late 40's longevity), too good to pass up. I've only just had first session on the wing ding and, whilst yet another thing to adapt to, it should come reasonably quick, and the reward for the long haul froth factor is undeniable.




Agree with all that. Wingding is great fun.

However, wings are not very strong so if you get rolled even by a small wave the wing is toast. Either sliced and diced by the foil or the attachment point causes the leading edge to break as happened to me last weekend.





Huh, second one of those I've seen shredded this week. You might be right...

mikesids
40 posts
4 Mar 2020 4:24PM
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Piros said..
Just interested to hear everyone's opinion now on the Wing Foil v Kite Foiling . Love it or hate it , lets hear it . It's been a big year since it's inception with new manufacturers popping up everywhere , Nasih just released a whole range and now Duotone is releasing two new ranges , Ultra light boom less & light weight boom models in 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 & 7m . So that says to me the market is big but I'm not seeing that many wings on the water (on the Gold Coast ) Kite foiling will always have the light wind advantage but with the new bigger wings that gap is getting smaller. So keen to hear from who's tried it or those that just don't like the idea. I myself have sold all my kite gear as I just haven't used since taking prone/sup & wing foiling , I also don't surf my short board or paddle a normal sup either , anyone else hung their old gear since getting bit by the foil bug..


Have been kiting for 12 years , kite foiling for 4 years , SUP foiling for two years, wing foiling since Aug last year when the first wings hit NZ. Have probably had around 40 wing sessions since then so have definitely formed some opinions of how it fits into the picture with all the other watersports for me.

Kite foiling better for:
- efficiency / ultimate low end ( though a 6m wing can now get going in 10 kts)
- speed
- jumping . But if you want to kill your wing gear by doing this then go for it !

Winging better for:
- riding swell DW - this is the wing's single biggest and most unique advantage I believe, as you can turn off 100% of the power and just surf swell
- crowded beaches
- getting out in storms - control over depower is way better ( and I have 4m kites for high wind kite foiling, yet for me there is no contest)
- if the wind disappears during a session winging is SO much easier ( bigger board that can float you, no lines to worry about)

I have a garage full of kites and various foils and boards. But they have mostly stayed unused since I got into winging. And especially since I started riding swell DW - for me it is probably the single most addictive water activity I do. Dropping into a nice roller , feeling the glide and letting the wing flag out as you hold it in one hand is the best feeling ever . Then sail upwind ( easy) and repeat again and again until you have had enough. I have been chasing this glide feeling since using my first generation Naish SUP foil to kitefoil with a couple of years back.

My two cents overall:

- winging is here to stay
- once you have ridden swell DW you will see what I mean. Note I say swell not waves, I don't think breaking waves and wings mix together well -> stay out of the breakers I reckon ( let the Hawaiians and sponsored riders mess around with all that. )
- don't believe anyone who says a 4m is all you need - this is a crock perpetuated by companies who weren't sure whether winging would take off so only released a 4m. The golden size is a 5m if anything , which is good for 12-20 kts if you are around 80kg on a reasonable size foil ( 1500cm2) and board ( 6-7 1/2ft, good volume , reasonable weight ~ up to 9kg)
- long masts ( I ride 90cm for coastal conditions ) + high aspect foils + a sub 6ft board are an absolutely MAGIC combo. The pumping and forward momentum they allow is incredible
- if you are keen on it , take lessons if they are available and use someone else's gear to get through the learning curve - you are able to step down board and foil front wing sizes really quickly ( for me I stepped down both after 5 sessions). Mate of mine did this and he is stoked with his set up now as he didn't invest in gear that he would have quickly outgrown
- if you can kitefoil you could potentially nail wing foiling in one or two goes as long as your equipment and conditions dont work against you. No other water sport can offer such a short learning curve.

It is worth a go guys, seriously. I still break out the twin tip and jump , and speed board to burn around on, and kitefoil to just roam around on light days , but the DW glide is what I am chasing most of all. There are a lot of very good kiters and SUPpers who have fully gone into it over here in NZ , so I'm not the only one !

emmafoils
145 posts
4 Mar 2020 5:42PM
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Select to expand quote
mikesids said..

Piros said..
Just interested to hear everyone's opinion now on the Wing Foil v Kite Foiling . Love it or hate it , lets hear it . It's been a big year since it's inception with new manufacturers popping up everywhere , Nasih just released a whole range and now Duotone is releasing two new ranges , Ultra light boom less & light weight boom models in 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 & 7m . So that says to me the market is big but I'm not seeing that many wings on the water (on the Gold Coast ) Kite foiling will always have the light wind advantage but with the new bigger wings that gap is getting smaller. So keen to hear from who's tried it or those that just don't like the idea. I myself have sold all my kite gear as I just haven't used since taking prone/sup & wing foiling , I also don't surf my short board or paddle a normal sup either , anyone else hung their old gear since getting bit by the foil bug..



Have been kiting for 12 years , kite foiling for 4 years , SUP foiling for two years, wing foiling since Aug last year when the first wings hit NZ. Have probably had around 40 wing sessions since then so have definitely formed some opinions of how it fits into the picture with all the other watersports for me.

Kite foiling better for:
- efficiency / ultimate low end ( though a 6m wing can now get going in 10 kts)
- speed
- jumping . But if you want to kill your wing gear by doing this then go for it !

Winging better for:
- riding swell DW - this is the wing's single biggest and most unique advantage I believe, as you can turn off 100% of the power and just surf swell
- crowded beaches
- getting out in storms - control over depower is way better ( and I have 4m kites for high wind kite foiling, yet for me there is no contest)
- if the wind disappears during a session winging is SO much easier ( bigger board that can float you, no lines to worry about)

I have a garage full of kites and various foils and boards. But they have mostly stayed unused since I got into winging. And especially since I started riding swell DW - for me it is probably the single most addictive water activity I do. Dropping into a nice roller , feeling the glide and letting the wing flag out as you hold it in one hand is the best feeling ever . Then sail upwind ( easy) and repeat again and again until you have had enough. I have been chasing this glide feeling since using my first generation Naish SUP foil to kitefoil with a couple of years back.

My two cents overall:

- winging is here to stay
- once you have ridden swell DW you will see what I mean. Note I say swell not waves, I don't think breaking waves and wings mix together well -> stay out of the breakers I reckon ( let the Hawaiians and sponsored riders mess around with all that. )
- don't believe anyone who says a 4m is all you need - this is a crock perpetuated by companies who weren't sure whether winging would take off so only released a 4m. The golden size is a 5m if anything , which is good for 12-20 kts if you are around 80kg on a reasonable size foil ( 1500cm2) and board ( 6-7 1/2ft, good volume , reasonable weight ~ up to 9kg)
- long masts ( I ride 90cm for coastal conditions ) + high aspect foils + a sub 6ft board are an absolutely MAGIC combo. The pumping and forward momentum they allow is incredible
- if you are keen on it , take lessons if they are available and use someone else's gear to get through the learning curve - you are able to step down board and foil front wing sizes really quickly ( for me I stepped down both after 5 sessions). Mate of mine did this and he is stoked with his set up now as he didn't invest in gear that he would have quickly outgrown
- if you can kitefoil you could potentially nail wing foiling in one or two goes as long as your equipment and conditions dont work against you. No other water sport can offer such a short learning curve.

It is worth a go guys, seriously. I still break out the twin tip and jump , and speed board to burn around on, and kitefoil to just roam around on light days , but the DW glide is what I am chasing most of all. There are a lot of very good kiters and SUPpers who have fully gone into it over here in NZ , so I'm not the only one !


As a kite foiler who is contemplating the wind ding thing, this rings so true. Thanks for your comments. I live for foiling swell downwind and I definitely see the advantages of a wing over a kite for the downwind part. 2 questions. Whenever we have enough wind to get decent swell, there is a bit of shore break to get through. How difficult is this with the wing? And how is getting back upwind compared to a kite in favorable conditions?

mikesids
40 posts
4 Mar 2020 7:19PM
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Upwind is easy , you can get good angles with the wing. Re onshores with shore break - I think the golden rule of foiling applies ie avoid dead onshores if possible. Both of my main spots for swell have a bit of cross shore to them which gives me an angle to get out. I guess you could leash the wing to yr ankle and lie on the board to paddle out , that's the only way I can think you'd do it. But otherwise maybe use the curve of the bay to your advantage and launch where you can get a bit of cross shore wind direction.

emmafoils
145 posts
4 Mar 2020 8:38PM
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its mostly side shore but I still body drag out a bit. I guess a shorter mast helps. Are you able to just walk out a bit with the wing and then knee start out thru the surf?

hilly
WA, 5254 posts
5 Mar 2020 7:51AM
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Hmm I did this on a tiny wave and wing destroyed.



I like riding upwind on swells like this.



juandesooka
336 posts
5 Mar 2020 8:18AM
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Good questions!

Been frothing hard on the supfoil and now prone foil for past while. And there's been a lot of epic all-time surf days where I've been down the way foiling instead. Really haven't used a regular surfboard more than a couple times in past 2 years. And definitely not the sup. It is almost kind of embarrassing to admit it, I get a lot of hassling from surfer buddies, but there's a handful of local foil frothers who get it.

And now wings . the 100% wave riding depower has got me interested. I tried briefly last summer, didn't work out for a variety of reasons, but I am committed to getting it figured out this Spring when the thermals start again. My worry is that upcoming epic kitesurfing day with swell and wind . will also be the epic wingfoiling day . and I'll be the dog choosing between two bones. As much as I love kitesurfing waves, I suspect the new mistress will win out. This is going to mean sacrificing some sure-thing fun wave smashing in return for climbing up that learning curve, figuring out the possibilities of the wing and foil combo. And my kitesurfing buddies will give even worse hassling than the surfers, especially with how lame the early attempts will likely be. Hopefully the pay-off comes later!

emmafoils
145 posts
5 Mar 2020 6:03PM
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great videos. would love to see someone winging out through a shore break.

There is definitely inertia in starting this: missing out on great kite foiling days, becoming a beginner again and buying more stuff, but I think ultimately the wing provides a more pure swell/downwind foiling experience than the kite. I am starting my wing journey this weekend.

Alysum
NSW, 457 posts
6 Mar 2020 8:40AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
mikesids said..

Piros said..
Just interested to hear everyone's opinion now on the Wing Foil v Kite Foiling . Love it or hate it , lets hear it . It's been a big year since it's inception with new manufacturers popping up everywhere , Nasih just released a whole range and now Duotone is releasing two new ranges , Ultra light boom less & light weight boom models in 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 & 7m . So that says to me the market is big but I'm not seeing that many wings on the water (on the Gold Coast ) Kite foiling will always have the light wind advantage but with the new bigger wings that gap is getting smaller. So keen to hear from who's tried it or those that just don't like the idea. I myself have sold all my kite gear as I just haven't used since taking prone/sup & wing foiling , I also don't surf my short board or paddle a normal sup either , anyone else hung their old gear since getting bit by the foil bug..



Have been kiting for 12 years , kite foiling for 4 years , SUP foiling for two years, wing foiling since Aug last year when the first wings hit NZ. Have probably had around 40 wing sessions since then so have definitely formed some opinions of how it fits into the picture with all the other watersports for me.

Kite foiling better for:
- efficiency / ultimate low end ( though a 6m wing can now get going in 10 kts)
- speed
- jumping . But if you want to kill your wing gear by doing this then go for it !

Winging better for:
- riding swell DW - this is the wing's single biggest and most unique advantage I believe, as you can turn off 100% of the power and just surf swell
- crowded beaches
- getting out in storms - control over depower is way better ( and I have 4m kites for high wind kite foiling, yet for me there is no contest)
- if the wind disappears during a session winging is SO much easier ( bigger board that can float you, no lines to worry about)

I have a garage full of kites and various foils and boards. But they have mostly stayed unused since I got into winging. And especially since I started riding swell DW - for me it is probably the single most addictive water activity I do. Dropping into a nice roller , feeling the glide and letting the wing flag out as you hold it in one hand is the best feeling ever . Then sail upwind ( easy) and repeat again and again until you have had enough. I have been chasing this glide feeling since using my first generation Naish SUP foil to kitefoil with a couple of years back.

My two cents overall:

- winging is here to stay
- once you have ridden swell DW you will see what I mean. Note I say swell not waves, I don't think breaking waves and wings mix together well -> stay out of the breakers I reckon ( let the Hawaiians and sponsored riders mess around with all that. )
- don't believe anyone who says a 4m is all you need - this is a crock perpetuated by companies who weren't sure whether winging would take off so only released a 4m. The golden size is a 5m if anything , which is good for 12-20 kts if you are around 80kg on a reasonable size foil ( 1500cm2) and board ( 6-7 1/2ft, good volume , reasonable weight ~ up to 9kg)
- long masts ( I ride 90cm for coastal conditions ) + high aspect foils + a sub 6ft board are an absolutely MAGIC combo. The pumping and forward momentum they allow is incredible
- if you are keen on it , take lessons if they are available and use someone else's gear to get through the learning curve - you are able to step down board and foil front wing sizes really quickly ( for me I stepped down both after 5 sessions). Mate of mine did this and he is stoked with his set up now as he didn't invest in gear that he would have quickly outgrown
- if you can kitefoil you could potentially nail wing foiling in one or two goes as long as your equipment and conditions dont work against you. No other water sport can offer such a short learning curve.

It is worth a go guys, seriously. I still break out the twin tip and jump , and speed board to burn around on, and kitefoil to just roam around on light days , but the DW glide is what I am chasing most of all. There are a lot of very good kiters and SUPpers who have fully gone into it over here in NZ , so I'm not the only one !


Very interesting post thanks for sharing!

I've been wondering whether the swell here in Sydney at Cronulla beach is sufficient enough for winging.

I think the new wing sizes by naish shows that they are starting to better understand the different sizes we need and that 4m is only for pros in high wind.

My biggest concern with winging vs kite foiling is body effort for winging. Because we're not pulled by a harness, it seems that our arms would tire out quickly, not to mention general core strength. Is it more tiring than kite foiling?

mikesids
40 posts
7 Mar 2020 4:06AM
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It is more tiring to start with as you tend to try to muscle the wing using your arms - the key is to have your arms quite straight but relaxed and let the wing pull through your shoulders. The wing wants to lift , you are just directing the lift really. If you pull the wing with your arms bent it is like trying to windsurf without a harness , you will kill your arms. The other thing that is tiring is falling off and knee starting continually , but that improves as you get better and stay up on the board for longer. I can happily get 3 hr sessions these days with sporadic use of a harness for going upwind ( I use a modified narrow traction kite harness , nothing special ).

Alysum
NSW, 457 posts
7 Mar 2020 10:03PM
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A harness for a wing, what? please explain!

StephenZ
VIC, 10 posts
8 Mar 2020 4:04PM
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Select to expand quote
juandesooka said..
Good questions!

Been frothing hard on the supfoil and now prone foil for past while. And there's been a lot of epic all-time surf days where I've been down the way foiling instead. Really haven't used a regular surfboard more than a couple times in past 2 years. And definitely not the sup. It is almost kind of embarrassing to admit it, I get a lot of hassling from surfer buddies, but there's a handful of local foil frothers who get it.

And now wings . the 100% wave riding depower has got me interested. I tried briefly last summer, didn't work out for a variety of reasons, but I am committed to getting it figured out this Spring when the thermals start again. My worry is that upcoming epic kitesurfing day with swell and wind . will also be the epic wingfoiling day . and I'll be the dog choosing between two bones. As much as I love kitesurfing waves, I suspect the new mistress will win out. This is going to mean sacrificing some sure-thing fun wave smashing in return for climbing up that learning curve, figuring out the possibilities of the wing and foil combo. And my kitesurfing buddies will give even worse hassling than the surfers, especially with how lame the early attempts will likely be. Hopefully the pay-off comes later!


This is exactly where I am at!

I've had a few attempts at wing foiling lately, so far all of them lame.
Yesterday's involved struggling with the wing (a 4.2 F-One) on my SUP in about 16 knots. Couldn't get (it) up.
I then ditched the wing for my 6m cloud and rode the SUP with the kite. It was ok, once you get used to waterstarting with a kite, but it really does ride like a dog. Finally, kite still in the air, ditched the SUP for my pocket board. Suddenly so agile and lively, wow what a difference the board makes.
In the meantime the wind had picked up to 20 knots, so I'm now on two kite sizes and two foil sizes bigger than I'd normally be on, but still able to rip. Nice to not feel like a complete noob for a change!

So there's definitely sacrifice involved. I'm hoping that in the long run the wing will open up new avenues and opportunities. But I don't see myself giving up kitefoiling completely - just too much fun, and also logistically convenient, gear can be in the boot with all the rest of the family stuff, can get dropped off and uber home etc.

tightlines
WA, 3267 posts
9 Mar 2020 3:54PM
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I have done a bit of kite foiling and a lot of SUP foiling on waves but my main aim with the sup foil was downwinding with a paddle.

I found it a fair bit harder than I expected hence getting a wing to spend some time down winding on the foil so that when I did get up with the paddle I had a better idea of how to keep going.

To me that is where they are a lot better than a kite, I did try down winding on big surf foils with 3 and 5 metre kites but you still can't really switch off the kite and just use the power of the swell, you have to constantly think about where the kite is and make sure you keep a little tension in the lines.
With the wing once you are foiling on a swell you can grab the front handle and just let it float whilst you 'surf' the swell.

I haven't had much chance to try the wing out in some actual waves yet but I think there is a fair bit of potential there as well.

I did start winging with a 6'8 ONE sup foil board but am now mainly using a 5'10 ONE board that I can still surf with a paddle.
Somewhere down the track, I will probably get a smaller wing specific board but for now, the 5'10 is fantastic.

Here is a snip of some downwinding using a 5'10 107ltr ONE foil board, 3.5 F-One Swing and an Axis 100 foil with 400 tail wing.

emmafoils
145 posts
9 Mar 2020 5:39PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
tightlines said..
I have done a bit of kite foiling and a lot of SUP foiling on waves but my main aim with the sup foil was downwinding with a paddle.

I found it a fair bit harder than I expected hence getting a wing to spend some time down winding on the foil so that when I did get up with the paddle I had a better idea of how to keep going.

To me that is where they are a lot better than a kite, I did try down winding on big surf foils with 3 and 5 metre kites but you still can't really switch off the kite and just use the power of the swell, you have to constantly think about where the kite is and make sure you keep a little tension in the lines.
With the wing once you are foiling on a swell you can grab the front handle and just let it float whilst you 'surf' the swell.

I haven't had much chance to try the wing out in some actual waves yet but I think there is a fair bit of potential there as well.

I did start winging with a 6'8 ONE sup foil board but am now mainly using a 5'10 ONE board that I can still surf with a paddle.
Somewhere down the track, I will probably get a smaller wing specific board but for now, the 5'10 is fantastic.

Here is a snip of some downwinding using a 5'10 107ltr ONE foil board, 3.5 F-One Swing and an Axis 100 foil with 400 tail wing.



I like that video. It is what I want to do. I agree with your comments.

I have been kitefoiling for about 2 years (around 400 sessions) and my only goal besides learning transitions and foot switches is to surf swell and waves. I use single skin kites. It really cannot be done properly, in my humble opinion. I thought I was doing it and many believe they are but the reality is that the kite is not the right tool for the job. It is great at getting you to the wave BUT: If the wave is small, you turn onto it with too much speed and miss out on the push from the wave/swell or your foil is too small and fast for the size of the swell. On bigger waves, as you start to ride them, the apparent wind increases line tension and you experience pull. Yes, with really good skills, you can slack line and truly surf but it is only for very short periods of time and you have to work the kite. People who talk about turning off the kite and just surfing are not really just surfing. There is always line tension. There has to be. My personal epiphany came recently when I started kite foiling in proper waves.....head high and higher with nice steep faces.....at those speeds there is a TON of apparent wind which increases your line tension or your speed is faster than the wind speed......the kite CANNOT fly unless you turn more into the wind which of course, increases line tension. Now you are just managing the kite while flying down a wave face....not surfing.

I am not saying one cannot kite foil in waves, I am just saying that 99% of the time that is exactly what you are doing: "kitefoiling in waves" but not surfing.

It goes without saying that the kite is a much better tool to harness the wind than the wingding in many ways but that is a false comparison. The wing is a tool for SURFING. You have to compare it to the paddle (SUP foiling) or your arms (prone foil surfing) not a kite.

Ok, I am done rambling. Thanks for reading. I am off for my second wing session. (the first was a disaster)

simon78
65 posts
9 Mar 2020 5:39PM
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For 30 mins I watched a (7m 'gong' ?) wing foil in 6-9knts, perhaps a big wing on a sup foil board.

It was amazing! Pumping the board and wing together to get the foil planing.

There were 2 periods of 5 mins where crazy skill with hard work didn't quite get the foil planing, looked like it was always just about too!

Alysum
NSW, 457 posts
10 Mar 2020 9:31PM
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I would like to get into winging soon, I love kite foiling but want to be able to experience riding a swell without a kite.

What sort of boards do most of you winging-ers use ? SUP or a large prone surf board ? Naish and Fanatic are heavily promoting their SUPs for winging but I am wondering is this the best board for winging or does it only make sense if you're actually going paddle SUP with it too.

emmafoils
145 posts
10 Mar 2020 8:14PM
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Select to expand quote
Alysum said..
I would like to get into winging soon, I love kite foiling but want to be able to experience riding a swell without a kite.

What sort of boards do most of you winging-ers use ? SUP or a large prone surf board ? Naish and Fanatic are heavily promoting their SUPs for winging but I am wondering is this the best board for winging or does it only make sense if you're actually going paddle SUP with it too.


I am very new to winging but did my due diligence on boards. If cost/space etc was not a factor, one would get a board specifically designed for winging. Since you don't need as much length/water line or width vs an SUP board, the newer Winging boards are shorter, narrower but have thickness to maintain volume. Less length and width should be better for riding once you are off the surface. I just got an F-one Rocket Wing board which is great. They come in a variety of volumes, are light and have a little carrying thing which is very convenient when carrying a wing also. As far as volume, there is a lot of info on the SUP/foiling part of this Forum. I got BW plus 20 L. It allows me to kneel start without easily. The best thing to do is borrow a big foil board if you can (SUP, windfoil, etc) for a few sessions and then buy something in the BW plus 0 to 10 to 20 L range.

Alysum
NSW, 457 posts
11 Mar 2020 11:08AM
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Select to expand quote
emmafoils said..

Alysum said..
I would like to get into winging soon, I love kite foiling but want to be able to experience riding a swell without a kite.

What sort of boards do most of you winging-ers use ? SUP or a large prone surf board ? Naish and Fanatic are heavily promoting their SUPs for winging but I am wondering is this the best board for winging or does it only make sense if you're actually going paddle SUP with it too.



I am very new to winging but did my due diligence on boards. If cost/space etc was not a factor, one would get a board specifically designed for winging. Since you don't need as much length/water line or width vs an SUP board, the newer Winging boards are shorter, narrower but have thickness to maintain volume. Less length and width should be better for riding once you are off the surface. I just got an F-one Rocket Wing board which is great. They come in a variety of volumes, are light and have a little carrying thing which is very convenient when carrying a wing also. As far as volume, there is a lot of info on the SUP/foiling part of this Forum. I got BW plus 20 L. It allows me to kneel start without easily. The best thing to do is borrow a big foil board if you can (SUP, windfoil, etc) for a few sessions and then buy something in the BW plus 0 to 10 to 20 L range.


That's good information thanks. The F One rocket seems to be a popular board and one of the few dedicated winging boards.
My aim is to go winging when it's mostly light winds though, high winds I'd prefer to kitesurf. So wondering whether a SUP board is better for light winds.

mikesids
40 posts
11 Mar 2020 4:41PM
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Select to expand quote
Alysum said..
A harness for a wing, what? please explain!


For me I was just doing upwind / downwind loops on local coastal beaches, with the aim of riding swell so lots of upwinding , which is the angle that really drains your arms after a while. The F One Swing has an optional harness line so I started trying it out with my Mystic kite harness. Worked great until I put a ding in the deck of my board with the harness hook while clambering back on after a wipeout. So ended up knocking up a winging harness that allows me to just rotate the hook out of the way while getting back on the board - it's not a sliding hook , I just rotate the whole harness as it's basically a padded belt . Components were a Peter Lynn Backstrap traction kite harness + Small Dakine spreader bar pad + Dakine Maniac hook + some webbing to attach the hook onto the spreader pad. It's really huckery but works well. Kite harnesses can't be easily rotated as they have too much lumbar curve built in.
Important to note that the harness doesn't take a full load like a kite harness, just helps take some load off the arms and allows longer sessions.





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"Wing Foil v Kite Foil" started by Piros