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Wing Foil v Kite Foil

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Created by Piros 3 months ago, 27 Feb 2020
eppo
WA, 7525 posts
11 Mar 2020 8:07PM
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Been out a few times lite foiling in waves with a good wing wanger dude. All I can say is I wish I was on that wing and not On the kite. Simple as that. It's not a fad it's an evolution as far as foiling in waves and swell is concerned. End of story.

daswussup
1 posts
12 Mar 2020 4:18AM
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First post ever on seabreeze!! I am mostly an inland lake kitefoiler but have just had my first breakthrough wingding sessions in last couple of weeks. I get out in the surf 3-4 weeks/year. I have suffered with multi disciplinary foilbrain syndrome for 3 years. Mostly with kite and sup. It took 10 sessions of wingflailing in various conditions before i got up and foiled. I'm all alone here in Reno NV with the wingding. So i don't have any role models to emulate.
Anyways, i agree that kite foiling in the surf and actually surfing if very different and harder than i was hoping for. However, On lakes with small windchop (knee high), kitefoiling is absolute gold. I use Slingshot foils mostly I76 and i84. My routine is to charge upwind and then come about toeside and slow down to a walking or slow jogging pace. I have found that at this speed i can shut down the kiteby foilng directly towards it. I just pump around effortlessly and chase bumps and carve my ballz off. When i started to see videos of wingdings flagged out and riding swell, i knew that this is the sensation that i chase with the kite. I am not good enough to go out in super light wind yet on the wing but the magic conditions for kite foiling for me are 8-12mph. There are often large holes in our mountainous wind. I absolutely love foiling into large holes and having to maintain the apparent wind with foil pumping and careful kite control. It occured to me recently how safe my kite is being 100' away from me and my foil. In the last 2 weeks i have managed to put my foil through the canopy of my brand new FOne 5m and put my body through the leading edge of my Gong 7m. So, my wingding career is on hold as i have shipped both wings off for repair.

Anyways, i have learned heaps(i learned that word here too)from several of the seabreeze forums on all my pursuits. Thanks a bunch to all of you Piros and all other posters/contributors.
Here is a pick of the f-one taped up from foilstrike and Gong 7 that the leading edge exploded violently when I gently fell on it. This sport starts expensive and doesn't get any cheaper as you go. But I have no choice at this point. Send it!!!!






emmafoils
142 posts
12 Mar 2020 4:33AM
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I think I know that Lake. My very first kite lesson was there many years ago. Great winds for the wingdingthing.

Congratulations on your progress. I am 2 hours in. Any key lessons learned?

broVan
8 posts
12 Mar 2020 7:26AM
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Ha! I used to teach there as Powerzone Kiteboarding School 2003-7ish. Washoe Lake.
I flailed for the first 6 sessions due to flukey fall/winter wind and only had a 4.2 Slingwing. First time on a 5m with good wind, I got up immediatly on the I84 with large stab. Next session I put up the Gong 7M and was up quickly. My best advise is to either have strong wind or a large like 5-7m wing and a big foil. I really want to get down to the I76 front wing as soon as possible because that is what I have been ripping on with the kite for the last couple of years and love. Another big help was going out in calmer water. Way easier to stand up and put it all together. I have been kiting/winging all winter with a drysuit. This was the first year that I ever really did that. Its really cool when a front is coming and I get to foil for a day or two and then ski pow the next day! Here's a pic of Washoe and Little Washoe





BrendanRobb
39 posts
12 Mar 2020 11:38AM
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so much great info in this thread for someone wondering which way to go, thanks so much everyone for sharing!

bigtone667
NSW, 1194 posts
14 Mar 2020 7:40PM
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Select to expand quote
Alysum said..

mikesids said..


Piros said..
Just interested to hear everyone's opinion now on the Wing Foil v Kite Foiling . Love it or hate it , lets hear it . It's been a big year since it's inception with new manufacturers popping up everywhere , Nasih just released a whole range and now Duotone is releasing two new ranges , Ultra light boom less & light weight boom models in 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 & 7m . So that says to me the market is big but I'm not seeing that many wings on the water (on the Gold Coast ) Kite foiling will always have the light wind advantage but with the new bigger wings that gap is getting smaller. So keen to hear from who's tried it or those that just don't like the idea. I myself have sold all my kite gear as I just haven't used since taking prone/sup & wing foiling , I also don't surf my short board or paddle a normal sup either , anyone else hung their old gear since getting bit by the foil bug..




Have been kiting for 12 years , kite foiling for 4 years , SUP foiling for two years, wing foiling since Aug last year when the first wings hit NZ. Have probably had around 40 wing sessions since then so have definitely formed some opinions of how it fits into the picture with all the other watersports for me.

Kite foiling better for:
- efficiency / ultimate low end ( though a 6m wing can now get going in 10 kts)
- speed
- jumping . But if you want to kill your wing gear by doing this then go for it !

Winging better for:
- riding swell DW - this is the wing's single biggest and most unique advantage I believe, as you can turn off 100% of the power and just surf swell
- crowded beaches
- getting out in storms - control over depower is way better ( and I have 4m kites for high wind kite foiling, yet for me there is no contest)
- if the wind disappears during a session winging is SO much easier ( bigger board that can float you, no lines to worry about)

I have a garage full of kites and various foils and boards. But they have mostly stayed unused since I got into winging. And especially since I started riding swell DW - for me it is probably the single most addictive water activity I do. Dropping into a nice roller , feeling the glide and letting the wing flag out as you hold it in one hand is the best feeling ever . Then sail upwind ( easy) and repeat again and again until you have had enough. I have been chasing this glide feeling since using my first generation Naish SUP foil to kitefoil with a couple of years back.

My two cents overall:

- winging is here to stay
- once you have ridden swell DW you will see what I mean. Note I say swell not waves, I don't think breaking waves and wings mix together well -> stay out of the breakers I reckon ( let the Hawaiians and sponsored riders mess around with all that. )
- don't believe anyone who says a 4m is all you need - this is a crock perpetuated by companies who weren't sure whether winging would take off so only released a 4m. The golden size is a 5m if anything , which is good for 12-20 kts if you are around 80kg on a reasonable size foil ( 1500cm2) and board ( 6-7 1/2ft, good volume , reasonable weight ~ up to 9kg)
- long masts ( I ride 90cm for coastal conditions ) + high aspect foils + a sub 6ft board are an absolutely MAGIC combo. The pumping and forward momentum they allow is incredible
- if you are keen on it , take lessons if they are available and use someone else's gear to get through the learning curve - you are able to step down board and foil front wing sizes really quickly ( for me I stepped down both after 5 sessions). Mate of mine did this and he is stoked with his set up now as he didn't invest in gear that he would have quickly outgrown
- if you can kitefoil you could potentially nail wing foiling in one or two goes as long as your equipment and conditions dont work against you. No other water sport can offer such a short learning curve.

It is worth a go guys, seriously. I still break out the twin tip and jump , and speed board to burn around on, and kitefoil to just roam around on light days , but the DW glide is what I am chasing most of all. There are a lot of very good kiters and SUPpers who have fully gone into it over here in NZ , so I'm not the only one !



Very interesting post thanks for sharing!

I've been wondering whether the swell here in Sydney at Cronulla beach is sufficient enough for winging.

I think the new wing sizes by naish shows that they are starting to better understand the different sizes we need and that 4m is only for pros in high wind.

My biggest concern with winging vs kite foiling is body effort for winging. Because we're not pulled by a harness, it seems that our arms would tire out quickly, not to mention general core strength. Is it more tiring than kite foiling?


Yes.

bigtone667
NSW, 1194 posts
14 Mar 2020 7:45PM
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Last 15 sessions: 13 wing, 2 kite.....

Only the pull the kite now for sub 10knot foiling or the odd boosting session.

warwickl
NSW, 1408 posts
14 Mar 2020 8:30PM
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Select to expand quote
bigtone667 said..
Last 15 sessions: 13 wing, 2 kite.....

Only the pull the kite now for sub 10knot foiling or the odd boosting session.


Plus 1

StephenZ
VIC, 10 posts
15 Mar 2020 11:01PM
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The good news for seasoned kite foilers wanting to learn wing foiling is once you're over the initial learning phase, (which appears to vary in painfulness, though evidently the most common cause of slow progress is unsuitable equipment, and in particular being underpowered), once up on the foil, it rapidly starts to feel more familiar, and all your kite foiling skills will start kicking in.

To begin with, being able to fly a kite only helps a little with handling the wing, i.e. basic wind awareness, but not that much in common in motor coordination. I suspect windsurfing experience may be slightly more useful here.
As for board handling and the initial starting, sup foilers would have the advantage, they are comfortable bobbing around on an unstable floating object, and know how to pump up onto the foil with little power, something kite foilers don't need to worry about.
So until this point, being a kite foiler hasn't really helped that much at all.

But once up on the foil and riding, all the board riding skills gained kite foiling are almost instantly transferrable to winging.Things like riding heel and toeside in both directions, being able to gybe and switch feet on the foil. These are skills that sup foilers don't necessarily need to develop, as feet are typically planted in one place in the favoured stance at all times and there's no need to switch.
Gybing is surprisingly easy once you figure out how to swap hands, which is a bit chaotic for me at the moment. But you do have some time to fiddle if you keep your speed up.Haven't tried tacks yet, figure I'll get gybes dialled first.

Just thought I'd share that bit of encouragement, based on my own experience of late, for the benefit of kite foilers looking to try this out.

emmafoils
142 posts
16 Mar 2020 1:57AM
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Select to expand quote
StephenZ said..
The good news for seasoned kite foilers wanting to learn wing foiling is once you're over the initial learning phase, (which appears to vary in painfulness, though evidently the most common cause of slow progress is unsuitable equipment, and in particular being underpowered), once up on the foil, it rapidly starts to feel more familiar, and all your kite foiling skills will start kicking in.

To begin with, being able to fly a kite only helps a little with handling the wing, i.e. basic wind awareness, but not that much in common in motor coordination. I suspect windsurfing experience may be slightly more useful here.
As for board handling and the initial starting, sup foilers would have the advantage, they are comfortable bobbing around on an unstable floating object, and know how to pump up onto the foil with little power, something kite foilers don't need to worry about.
So until this point, being a kite foiler hasn't really helped that much at all.

But once up on the foil and riding, all the board riding skills gained kite foiling are almost instantly transferrable to winging.Things like riding heel and toeside in both directions, being able to gybe and switch feet on the foil. These are skills that sup foilers don't necessarily need to develop, as feet are typically planted in one place in the favoured stance at all times and there's no need to switch.
Gybing is surprisingly easy once you figure out how to swap hands, which is a bit chaotic for me at the moment. But you do have some time to fiddle if you keep your speed up.Haven't tried tacks yet, figure I'll get gybes dialled first.

Just thought I'd share that bit of encouragement, based on my own experience of late, for the benefit of kite foilers looking to try this out.


Thanks, it is encouraging. I agree that the right equipment makes a huge difference at the very beginning.

RAL INN
VIC, 2834 posts
16 Mar 2020 9:36AM
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This one shows some technique
www.instagram.com/tv/B9hiDRooxY9/?igshid=v0t3so73915p

Alysum
NSW, 453 posts
16 Mar 2020 1:39PM
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What would be some good techniques to reduce the tiredness of arms/shoulders from winging ? It is an expensive investment to find out for yourself that it's too tiring and to decide to stick to kite foiling !

mikesids
40 posts
16 Mar 2020 1:01PM
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Some suggestions:
- practice your wing control on land esp power control ( feathering power by raising wing overhead). Really work on trying to avoid digging the wingtip in the water , this will be the main cause of you falling in and having to restart
- only pump when there's enough wind / gust to pull through your shoulders , you will learn how much pull is sufficient
- straight arms - let wing pull through your shoulders
- resist the urge to muscle the wing by bending your arms - let the wing pull you , don't pull the wing

If you can minimise the knee restarts by not digging the wingtips then that is a big step forward - they are really tiring, esp in the early phases.
But heaps of people have learned to wing incl kids and women , so it's definitely not a strength thing - technique is the key as with kiting

Hope this helps

Youngbreezy
WA, 639 posts
31 Mar 2020 9:27PM
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This is a great break down from gunnar about the advantages of winging. I am really itching to get into it



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"Wing Foil v Kite Foil" started by Piros