Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

2019 Slingshot Hover Glide FSUP Foil vs H4 wing

Reply
Created by Seajuice 8 months ago, 27 Oct 2018
Seajuice
NSW, 445 posts
27 Oct 2018 6:47PM
Thumbs Up

Hey guys. Just wondering if anyone has ridden the 2019 Slingshot Hover Glide FSUP Foil 84 or 76 models & compared it to the H4 Wing. I am hoping it will fit the original fuselarge & hoping I won't have to buy the tail wing. Also hoping for better side to side stability than the H4 wing. I was told that the 76 wing would be the pick for an average weight person & a board up to 8ft.
And also will it fit the original fuselarge?

juandesooka
247 posts
28 Oct 2018 12:10PM
Thumbs Up

I am no pro, just started experimenting with SS gear. I've ridden H4 once behind the boat and once on kite, not yet in the surf. It was unexpectedly unstable first try, found it quite fun under the kite, so turney, but unsure if I'd like that lack of stability at this point in my sup foil progression. H2 was super smooth both behind boat and kiting, used it first time in surf 2 days ago, a little slower to lift than my takuma, but so lively and steady and smooth. That one's a winner, but I think it may require a little more oomph in the surf to get going ... so maybe it's the choice for slightly bigger, better waves.

I have a friend who has the Infinity 76, seems like this is the best option for smaller waves but with some upside for speed and glide and pumping. That's the one I am looking out for!

SS says that all the wings and fuselages are compatible back to 2017.

Seajuice
NSW, 445 posts
28 Oct 2018 8:31PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks Juandesooka for your reply. You have answered my question for my decision to go for the 76 Infinity as it sounds to be more stable than the H4 & better lift than the H2.
The H4 seemed to be more stable on bigger higher speed waves. Probably due to higher speed pushing out the twitchyness.

Hover62
20 posts
28 Oct 2018 8:37PM
Thumbs Up

I have the H4 and both the Infinity 76 and 84. I have not surfed any of them. I kited the H4 and the 76 and windfoiled the 84. The 76 has been way more lift than the H4 and I find it more stable side to side while kiting. I use it in lighter wind so I am not sure but it seems as fast or faster thank the H4. All the parts are interchangeable and I use the smaller stabilizer with the 76.

baldy123
WA, 28 posts
28 Oct 2018 9:01PM
Thumbs Up

Seajuice,

I have the SS infinity 84 FSup and older H2.

The 84 works great for me on the Sup in waves, I weight in around 85kg.
I've had it out in a mix of 1ft to 5ft waves and found it handles heaps of speed and can be pumped.
The 76 is aimed at prone surfing and lighter riders, and is also now the stock 2019 windfoil front wing.

juandesooka
247 posts
29 Oct 2018 10:10AM
Thumbs Up

Stoked to try one of those infinity wings, 76 or 84. Is this sup foiling fun or what!

Also stoked to use the H4 more under the kite. More time on the water, more fun, Fun, FUN.

Seajuice
NSW, 445 posts
30 Oct 2018 5:59PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks baldy123. that's just the information I needed. I would be happy to get a wing with fairly easy lift in 1 foot waves as well as 5ft waves with good stability. I was starting to decide more towards the 84 wing for the more suttle fuller waves & use the H4 for the more steeper & general surf. Plus use the H4 for balance training. I have yet to find the sweet spot position on the board for the H4. I put it all the way forward for the first time ever in my last surf session & found myself up & running easily & balance was quite surprising that I had enough time on the flat water to muck around with turning & pumping. Lol! But then after about an hour I started to lose the balance etc & maybe got back to old habits or just a bit of fatigue setting in.
Anyway. So far I want to buy the wing. But wondering if the standard H4 tail wing would be OK for it.
Also would the standard fuselarge be ok where the mast will fit through the wing? In other words, I just want to buy the wing only & fit it to my standard H4 set up. The difference in cost getting a switch fuse plus tail wing & screws nearly doubles the cost!

baldy123
WA, 28 posts
30 Oct 2018 7:41PM
Thumbs Up

I've used the infinity 84 now with both rear wings.

Smaller rear wing works perfectly fine and probably faster. This is all I had to begin with as I only purchased the new 2019 front wing to go on my 2018 H2 setup.

I've just got the larger 48cm rear wing, have now used a couple of times. It does seems to work better for pumping between flat spots when on the wave. But i'd Probably stick to the small rear wing in the surf in the future unless it's really small waves.

Seajuice
NSW, 445 posts
31 Oct 2018 2:11PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks baldy123. Much appreciated. I think SS said 2019 rear wing helps keeping in contact with water on turns with the down turned tips.

baldy123
WA, 28 posts
2 Nov 2018 2:28PM
Thumbs Up


Heres a pic of SS infinity 84 versus GoFoil IWA, M200 and M280

AlexF
195 posts
5 Nov 2018 2:45AM
Thumbs Up

Which fuse do you use in the SS on the pic?
Has it a switch option or only the 2019 "A" and "B" marked positions i got on my 2019 FSURF fuse?
Alex

juandesooka
247 posts
27 Nov 2018 1:57PM
Thumbs Up

I manned up and pulled the trigger on the 84. Was hoping to grind out a sale but no deals to be had do just went for it. Xmas gift to myself. Super stoked to get it on. Really appreciate all the great advice here.

juandesooka
247 posts
4 Dec 2018 2:26AM
Thumbs Up

First attempt on the Infinity 84 yesterday. Initial tries were disastrous: "OMG I just broke the bank, and it doesn't work". I couldn't get it up on foil, I'd catch a wave, give it the little pop, and it would dive. I tried adjusting angle of attack, moving mast forward and back ... then realized the culprit ... had the fuselage upside down, so the rear wing was also upside down. What a kook! Reversed it and got a few waves, but by then the tide had dropped and wind increased, so not really a fair test of the wing from that point. Although it did lift quickly in the small waves, as expected, and I think it'll be nice and stable once the balance points are figured out. I am confident more fun times are on the way.

Does raise an interesting question though ... please excuse me while I nerd out for a moment (I expect most will stop reading at this point).

As I understand foil design, front wing gives lift, rear wing gives drag/drop (reverse lift). We are standing on a seesaw, we lift it on takeoff, then find the balance point that allows forward momentum without breaching the wing (too much lift) or pearling the board (too much drag). On my kite foil, the wings are flat on one side, so the front wing has flat side down, rear wing has flat side up, so it's pretty obvious which wing is doing what.

On the slingshot wings, the front wing has very obvious lift profile, but on rear wing, it's not as obvious from looking at it which way is "up". If the rear wing in its proper position is providing drag, then its seems logical that if it's upside down, it would instead be providing lift -- like a canard set up, with two lifting wings. It seems logical that adding further lift instead of drag should lead to uncontrolled lifts and breaches -- but the reaction was the opposite, I could not lift the nose on take-off.

Thinking about it more, I recall a similar experience playing around with canard set up on kite wings, where using a too large rear wing, it would dive uncontrollably, even though both wings had lift (and the foil would lift easily if the wings were reversed in a non-canard set up). Clearly a balance problem, but what explains it? It seems counter-intuitive that adding lift means not able to lift at all. But maybe once you get an extreme lifting force it gets to a point that there can't be enough speed/force to make it rise? I picture a jet attempting to take off with huge flaps set at 90% -- too extreme an angle to make it work. Sound about right?

Piros
QLD, 5476 posts
4 Dec 2018 6:39AM
Thumbs Up

Yeah the Slingshot can be completely set up arse about face , you are not the first to do it , rear wing upside down is the most common followed by mast the wrong spot. Sort of get what you are saying about all Lift and no drag thing but really shouldn't compare kiting to Supping . You can very easily kite without a rear wing as you have the kite to lean against for stability but extremely hard on Sup. Don't think too hard about it all but yes rear wings for Sups are shrinking as riders chase more speed and manoeuvrability. The latest wing set from MFC is a good example the rear wing is tiny .

colas
3246 posts
4 Dec 2018 2:40PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
juandesooka said..
then its seems logical that if it's upside down, it would instead be providing lift -- like a canard set up, with two lifting wings. It seems logical that adding further lift instead of drag should lead to uncontrolled lifts and breaches -- but the reaction was the opposite, I could not lift the nose on take-off.



A bit of off topic, but:

The stab pulls down on kite foils because to go faster, you make the sail pull more forwards, forcing the board to tilt forwards. The stab pulling downwards compensate for this.

The first Gong kite foils were aimed at beginners, and had the stab pushing up: this provided a kind of "safety speed limit": at about 20 knts, the foil would make the board land, preventing the foil to go too fast and scare the rider, with potentially more dangerous wipeouts. Once the learning phases were over, you just adjusted the stab with provided shims to pull downwards.

As for surf/SUP foils, I guess the stab angle must be a compromise to work with very different speeds and wave conditions. I guess each designer spent a lot of time tweaking theirs. (but maybe not for the alibaba clones :-) )

Seajuice
NSW, 445 posts
4 Dec 2018 6:42PM
Thumbs Up

Hey juandesooka. Should have got the NeilPryde. Cant mix it up. Haa!.
No. But seriously only a very minor issue.
I am sure you will love the 84 wing. I believe these bigger wings of all the good brands won't let anyone down.
I wouldn't be surprised that it will feel nice, fast & so stable.

AlexF
195 posts
4 Dec 2018 9:23PM
Thumbs Up

One important thing to consider here is also the length of the fuselage since it's the lever arm for the stab forces.
In windfoiling the fuselage resp. total foil length are getting larger since you gain a lot more pitch stabiltiy by this.
I started a discussion about this issue for SUPfoils in this thread, after my first impressions with the SS Infintiy 84:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Foiling/Fuselage-foil-lenght-what-does-it-affect-

A long fuse creates stability, the long lever allows to use a smaller stab, meaning less drag.
Me thinks the SS fuse for the FSUP / Infinity 84 is too short esp. when used with the standard stab.
I guess that's the cause why SS did the dedicated large stab for the FSUP, for gaining stability, but also drag.
No other brand uses such a short fuse and big stab than SS on on the FSUP/ Infintiy 84, i did a little research on that.
Most extrem shown on the new Takuma foils, having a total foil length of about 95 cm (est.), many other brands are in the range of 85 - 90cm, whereas my SS FSUP has a total length of only 74cm -> very pitch sensitive with the small stab.

Alex

juandesooka
247 posts
5 Dec 2018 12:40AM
Thumbs Up

I will be very curious to put this wing through its paces. I was really torn about the 76 vs 84. 84 has the upside of more lift for tiny waves. 76 has the upside of more speed capability, can ride in bigger and faster waves. Both of which I want! But decided on the big wing, because this is is "supposed" to be about riding small crappy waves that are not surfable on other craft ... if the waves are good enough to justify a faster wing, I probably should be on a regular sup/surfboard. (even though I probably won't be: I am going to find an H2 wing for higher performance, or will make one out of G10 )

Funny thing is: I chose the 84 because a friend has the Ride Engine 84 (same wing rebranded) and had some initial struggles, not as much lift as he would have thought, so I decided I better not go even smaller than that. When the 84 arrived, it was HUGE .... turns out the RE 84 is actually mislabelled, it's a 76 that has 84 painted on it .... bizarre!

Longer fuse: I have windsurfer friend with the long ss fuse, maybe I'll borrow it to see differences. But I'll wait until I am used to the stock version and conquered its basic function. I bought this setup to eliminate variables: a proven setup that is working for lots of riders out there, so it should work for me too ... I want to be confident that problems experienced are from technique issues to overcome, not from gear limitations. Once I am used to it, then I can play around with fine tuning. My experience with kiting is that you will get used to whatever you're riding, learn to account for its good and bad features, and eventually ride it effectively -- and in the end, when you ask kiters what the best kite is, they all answer it's the one they are on. In the frustrating learning stages of all these sports, time on water with your setup is the solution. I think it can be a mistake to continually tinker with gear while learning, as introducing more variables makes it harder to pinpoint what needs improving in your technique.

AlexF
195 posts
5 Dec 2018 1:09AM
Thumbs Up

Fully agree TOW is everything, but my TOW is limited esp. in waves so i want to have the perfect gear for maximum learning effort.
The Infinity 84 has significantly more lift than the 76 (i had the 76 before) and isn't slow. But for speed on faster waves you want pitch stability and low drag. Both issues, speed and pitch stability, are relevant for (wave)windfoiling too, and while being fast with my Setup (Infinity 84, short fuse, small stab) i hadn't the best experience with pitch stability compared to other (wind)foils.
Also the NP or Gofoil SUPfoils are used for windfloiling and i can't remember reports issueing pitch stability.
So if you struggle in your learning with your pitch stability or your speed give the long fuse + small stab setup a try.
Btw., the "small" stab that comes stock with all SS foils despite the FSUP isn't really small in comparison to the ones of the other brands.
Alex

juandesooka
247 posts
14 Dec 2018 11:47AM
Thumbs Up

STOKED! Got some really good waves today on the 84. Took a while to figure out how to keep the wing in the water on the bigger waves. For the moment, that means a wider stance and lower centre of gravity (think: stinkbug caveman) -- ugly but it works! I'll focus on improving style once the functionality is solid. I am nowhere near the "flow" stage, not ripping how I envision, but I got some 200m+ waves and was able to do some swooping back and forth on a few, to milk the wave face for more speed. A few truly spectacular crashes when the racing down the line became too much ... and not the usual "let myself fall off the back", more the yardsale explosion, with the foil flying through the air.

Fatigue became a factor, with so much more paddling than normal due to length of ride. A good problem to have, as they say. But on a surf foil, I honestly don't think I'd be able to do it that long if I had to prone paddle back after the length of rides today. I guess more TOW would eventually lead to better paddling condition. But what a marathon that'll be.

colas
3246 posts
14 Dec 2018 4:46PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
juandesooka said..
STOKED! Got some really good waves today on the 84. Took a while to figure out how to keep the wing in the water on the bigger waves. For the moment, that means a wider stance and lower centre of gravity (think: stinkbug caveman) -- ugly but it works! I'll focus on improving style once the functionality is solid.


Try also to hold the paddle in only one hand. It is incredible how much it improves control, both at high speed and for pumping. Sam Pa'e has been advising it, and he is so right (as for a lot of things foil-related)

juandesooka
247 posts
19 Jan 2019 6:53AM
Thumbs Up

I got a whole bunch of riding on my 84 wing over xmas, getting to the point of being "comfortable" -- easy pop up on most waves, not too many crazy wipeouts in typical conditions, a lot less drama. When it gets bigger/faster, that's when it gets both exciting and more dramatic ... great rides and great wipeouts. I haven't been as sore in years.

I decided to buy an H2 wing, for the faster waves. My goal, ultimately, is to surf foil ... big carves, going fast. It'll be fun to see how it performs. I borrowed a friend's for a brief attempt a while back, it was frustrating when waves too small (couldn't get it up) and then super fun once the waves had enough oomph to get it going. I got one off ikitesurf classified for $200us. There's another on there, if anyone wants the contact info, pm me.

Colas: I tried the paddle one hand technique ... it works! Cool how it opens up the body.

Seajuice
NSW, 445 posts
19 Jan 2019 2:28PM
Thumbs Up

Good on you juandesooka. I have done the same as you & experienced the same over xmas. Lol! Yeah it's crazy on a big wing when it gets big. But it is doable. Very high concentration & determination to stop the wing from breaching at top speed. Haaa!
And yeah. Like you I have now got a smaller wing & found less breaches & wipeouts. And a little more reaction time.
My foil is a different brand to yours as you may know but the concept is basically the same between small medium & large wings of different brands.
Getting better in turns now too.
Yeah feels better in balance when riding with paddle only in one hand.
Can't wait for my next session. Love it.



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling


"2019 Slingshot Hover Glide FSUP Foil vs H4 wing" started by Seajuice