A mate and I are looking to get into this foiling thing
He likes Naish, I like Axis but we both dont know much and dont really care
We're looking to both buy the same brand to allow us to interchange parts etc and so we learn from each others mistakes haha
So to the SB experts - is there a clear best option? the two things that appear to matter most are:
- which system is better in terms of quality/strength of components and the fitting together/ease of use of the foil parts?
- is one mob ahead of the other in terms of range of different wings and overall performance?
I'll be focusing on SUP surf with maybe a bit of kite if i like it, my mate will be prone surfing, maybe kite also.
Axis are good but lack small wings for kiting unless you get the new black series 700...which has only just been released and hard to get.
haven't used Naish but they look good. but not many people using them here in WA.personally for a little extra $ I'd consider Armstrong. I ride a HS 1250 and this one wing does it all surf, kite, wing, sup. Zero corrosion and a good second hand market for spare wings down the track. For sup and kite 85cm mast.
For prone 72cm mast.
Lack small wings for kiting ? I was kiting on the axis 680 for two seasons. But yeh if you want the new black series they wings are limited right at this point in time. Personally I'd get the older and still great S series version second hand anyhow and save some serious coin. You won't know any bloody difference for a good two seasons. Never used the naish system and I'm sure it's good. But you can't go wrong with the axis system.
of course if ya coined up I'd go Armstrong for sure.
Select to expand quotebaldy123 said..
Axis are good but lack small wings for kiting unless you get the new black series 700...which has only just been released and hard to get.
Personally for a little extra $ I'd consider Armstrong. I ride a HS 1250 and this one wing does it all surf, kite, wing, sup. Zero corrosion and a good second hand market for spare wings down the track. For sup and kite 85cm mast.
For prone 72cm mast.
Axis S860 is the same size as and very similar to the HS 1250.
The S860 is a great foil for surf , wing sup and kite.
And the S760 is even better if you are not so heavy , or for more wind / higher waves...
Ok cheers for the replys. I've been web browsing foil stuff all day and am now leaning havily towards axis
They seem to be significnatly more common also, so finding 2nd hand extra bits and pieces should be easier. Also I cant actually find a shop in WA that stocks Naish (is there one?) so thats a pretty big deal breaker
Local shops.
Kite addiction, Myaree - Naish, Neilpryde, Cabrinha
WA surf, safety bay - Armstrong, Axis, Konrad
standupsurf freo - Armstrong, GoFoil, Axis
action sports, balcatta - Moses, slingshot
Foiling is still a new sport with design advances coming fast and furious. So the advantage goes to brands that are primarily "foil companies"
They seem to be quicker at reacting to where the sport is going. Axis, GoFoil, Armstrong for example. Versus big corporations where foils are just another product in their massive lineup.
Select to expand quoteDWF said..
Foiling is still a new sport with design advances coming fast and furious. So the advantage goes to brands that are primarily "foil companies"
They seem to be quicker at reacting to where the sport is going. Axis, GoFoil, Armstrong for example. Versus big corporations where foils are just another product in their massive lineup.
Yeah that's what id assumed also.
Armstrong is brand id never heard of until i sunk into the depths of foil tech today. Seems there is a bit of buz about them at present also.
Axis is great. Might want to checkout Konrad foils-the new guy on the block. Probably the easiest foiling wings ive used.
Yep. My son uses the Konrad. Got on my Armstrong 1250 and didn't like it nearly as much. I think the Konrad is a really user friendly foil system. I've also watched a young lad tear margs main break apart on a Konrad at good speed and get fourth in the king Of the cut. so it's no slouch either. Both him and my son dock start and pump the hell out of it. It's an Aussie brand to.
If you want to fly above water and enjoy foiling, don't buy naish. If you want to crash, get pissxd off and hate the sport, buy naish. Seriously buy anything but naish.
Haha awesome. I may have missed the konrad opportunity, ive splashed out on axis, but thats ok i like supporting kiwis too.
Some shiny red rainbow producing axis aliminium beauties are sitting on my dining room table waiting to be assembled now.
Thanks for the input folks
You wont regret it, hopefully I can share some glides with you up the coast soon.
Yep Axis is probably the best to start out with. Very user friendly and heaps of used gear available.
As you get experienced you'll probably move to a full carbon foil which Axis sadly doesn't have (fuselage in al). The massive Axis range does make it confusing for many and you end up buying many wings which you never use.... been there done that.
So are you still using axis then Alysum??
konrad do an all carbon foil setup now IMO
jason (wa surf) and I rode the the first iteration of the Konrad foil ages ago and we were really impressed with its ease of use and good balance. Since then plenty of crew I know ride Konrad (including my son) and find them a great setup. Now there are carbon setups and other HA stuff in the pipeline. But it's been kept simple with choices.
axis make a high quality product and with a vast array of choices. They are always pushing the envelope. Some say too quickly and I agree with this (have said this on a post in the past). But that is just an opinion who really knows at the moment, things are changing fast.
Konrad for simplicity, axis for choice. Either one is a good buy. I cannot comment on others because I haven't used them. Except Armstrong which I'm on now.
Select to expand quotetightlines said..
You wont regret it, hopefully I can share some glides with you up the coast soon.
Yeah looking forward to it kent!
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
So are you still using axis then Alysum??
konrad do an all carbon foil setup now IMO
jason (wa surf) and I rode the the first iteration of the Konrad foil ages ago and we were really impressed with its ease of use and good balance. Since then plenty of crew I know ride Konrad (including my son) and find them a great setup. Now there are carbon setups and other HA stuff in the pipeline. But it's been kept simple with choices.
axis make a high quality product and with a vast array of choices. They are always pushing the envelope. Some say too quickly and I agree with this (have said this on a post in the past). But that is just an opinion who really knows at the moment, things are changing fast.
Konrad for simplicity, axis for choice. Either one is a good buy. I cannot comment on others because I haven't used them. Except Armstrong which I'm on now.
Yep still on Axis for now until I find a full carbon set I like. I have too many requirements 
Armstrong isn't fast enough for my liking. 2021 is going to be interesting....
Select to expand quoteAlysum said..eppo said..
So are you still using axis then Alysum??
konrad do an all carbon foil setup now IMO
jason (wa surf) and I rode the the first iteration of the Konrad foil ages ago and we were really impressed with its ease of use and good balance. Since then plenty of crew I know ride Konrad (including my son) and find them a great setup. Now there are carbon setups and other HA stuff in the pipeline. But it's been kept simple with choices.
axis make a high quality product and with a vast array of choices. They are always pushing the envelope. Some say too quickly and I agree with this (have said this on a post in the past). But that is just an opinion who really knows at the moment, things are changing fast.
Konrad for simplicity, axis for choice. Either one is a good buy. I cannot comment on others because I haven't used them. Except Armstrong which I'm on now.
Yep still on Axis for now until I find a full carbon set I like. I have too many requirements Armstrong isn't fast enough for my liking. 2021 is going to be interesting....
Sure is. Not fast enough hey. Jesus I did two, half king of the cut runs yesterday arvo and I'm not sure I want to go faster ... some teeth chattering wipeouts on the bigger swell lines 
Don't know that I'd want to go any faster than my Hs 1050 with 212 tail , the wipeouts hurt too much !
And just to mention again Asylum, Jason aka wingman, was second in the king of the cut. He actually totally stuffed up the start - was well behind the entire field ) and caught up to the leader 4 times only to crash in some horror wipeouts the last one went to hospital for stitches to the head. Cut down 232 was too twitchy - should have gone the full 232 he thinks.
I watched the whole thing and he was passing everyone quickly and with ease. But pushed it way to hard when was up to the eventual and well deserved winner. That guy can wing man and he's even better on a windsurfer (watched him rip margs main break to shreds) . Crazy talented.
well that's the only evidence I have that the Armstrong is plenty fast enough so I'm not saying categorically it's fast enough for everyone.
What front wing was he on, I can only just handle the 212 tail prone it's so fast and sensitive.
Sure any foil can be pushed hard depending on many things, conditions, gear, rider etc...
It's not rocket science that thinner flatter wings are faster. And I like to go fast
It would be great to see some garmin/strava activities to see the real speeds Armstrong foils are.
Select to expand quotekobo said..
What front wing was he on, I can only just handle the 212 tail prone it's so fast and sensitive.
Pretty sure he was on the 1050.
Select to expand quoteAlysum said..It would be great to see some garmin/strava activities to see the real speeds Armstrong foils are.
Drew got 44.8kph on the 850. Rich on the gofoil NL is close to 50kph I think. The 850 turns better though. Horses for courses.
Select to expand quotehilly said..Alysum said..It would be great to see some garmin/strava activities to see the real speeds Armstrong foils are.
Drew got 44.8kph on the 850. Rich on the gofoil NL is close to 50kph I think. The 850 turns better though. Horses for courses.
Would like to see a complete activity graph not just the one "top speed" which is often inaccurate anyway 
Select to expand quotetightlines said..kobo said..
What front wing was he on, I can only just handle the 212 tail prone it's so fast and sensitive.
Pretty sure he was on the 1050.
On the 1250 front. Cut down 232.
Select to expand quoteAlysum said..
Sure any foil can be pushed hard depending on many things, conditions, gear, rider etc...
It's not rocket science that thinner flatter wings are faster. And I like to go fast
It would be great to see some garmin/strava activities to see the real speeds Armstrong foils are.
Oh I see you are looking for the real flat HA type wing for pure speed / glide type riding. Fair enough. Surely Adrian is considering a pure carbon setup including the fuse soon enough ? Pretty sure the armie crew are developing a super HA flat as wing but I am assuming it won't be released until it's spot on. 
Select to expand quoteeppo said..tightlines said..kobo said..
What front wing was he on, I can only just handle the 212 tail prone it's so fast and sensitive.
Pretty sure he was on the 1050.
On the 1250 front. Cut down 232.
I don't think so.
Select to expand quoteAlysum said..hilly said..Alysum said..It would be great to see some garmin/strava activities to see the real speeds Armstrong foils are.
Drew got 44.8kph on the 850. Rich on the gofoil NL is close to 50kph I think. The 850 turns better though. Horses for courses.
Would like to see a complete activity graph not just the one "top speed" which is often inaccurate anyway
This ^
Im not saying those quoted speed are wrong because I believe they are acheivable but I am saying top speeds on gps's are usually during stacks so not reliable at all, the graph doesn't normally lie.
Hell I got 67kph the other day on my 1000 Axis.
You and I know that's not true but hey that's what my gps says.
It actually tops out in the mid 30's
Top averages for a km are more like 25kph
downwinding.
Yep and I think you'll find all surf wings are in the low to mid 30s, then you move onto kite specific wings for more speed, but they are no use for surfing unless your tow surfing into Nazare.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..Alysum said..
Sure any foil can be pushed hard depending on many things, conditions, gear, rider etc...
It's not rocket science that thinner flatter wings are faster. And I like to go fast
It would be great to see some garmin/strava activities to see the real speeds Armstrong foils are.
Oh I see you are looking for the real flat HA type wing for pure speed / glide type riding. Fair enough. Surely Adrian is considering a pure carbon setup including the fuse soon enough ? Pretty sure the armie crew are developing a super HA flat as wing but I am assuming it won't be released until it's spot on.
Sadly Axis refuses to make a carbon fuselage and their carbon mast is heavy. They do make very fast wings with the black series, I've topped 20knots but it's not the perfect foil setup for me either :-)
Armie is a little anti-HA at the moment for some reason, he showed some crazy super high AR wing prototypes in a video recently but that's too extreme I wouldn't be surprised if Armstrong releases a different fuselage for HA wings for a stronger connection, we'll see....
