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Armstron APF1675 mast position

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Created by Pacoo 4 months ago, 4 Oct 2023
Pacoo
103 posts
4 Oct 2023 2:05AM
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Does anybody have experience with this foil?
I tested it down winding and it appears that it should be further back in the box compared with other Armstrong foils.
It has a lot of front-foot pressure, similar to some gofoils.
Anyway, it is an amazing foil, truly a game-changer for downwind.

kobo
NSW, 1052 posts
4 Oct 2023 6:43AM
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Say whaaat ? I have it slammed as far forward as I can get it with as much tail angle as I can get and still can't get enough front foot pressure ! That's with the 180 speed tail.What tail are you using? It's the only foil I've ever ridden that the front foot pressure gets less the faster it goes.It's almost impossible to stall it and the low speed pump is as low as you could ever want , but it's not easy to turn at 1200 wide.

Foilmate
VIC, 22 posts
4 Oct 2023 2:29PM
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Mine is slightly back from where my HA foils would be

Pacoo
103 posts
4 Oct 2023 11:50AM
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kobo said..
Say whaaat ? I have it slammed as far forward as I can get it with as much tail angle as I can get and still can't get enough front foot pressure ! That's with the 180 speed tail.What tail are you using? It's the only foil I've ever ridden that the front foot pressure gets less the faster it goes.It's almost impossible to stall it and the low speed pump is as low as you could ever want , but it's not easy to turn at 1200 wide.


Interesting, I used the 202 pump with no shim. The board was the KT dragonfly 7,7.
Compared with the MA1750, I would say it needs to go 2cm back; and has a lot more front foot pressure.
Turning was feeling a bit better than the MA1750.
All downwind experience.

kobo
NSW, 1052 posts
4 Oct 2023 2:50PM
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Foilmate said..
Mine is slightly back from where my HA foils would be


Wow , mine is 100mm further forward than the I run the HA 1125,can you tell me your complete setup for comparison please ?Im using PM795/60/180 at -2

Pacoo
103 posts
4 Oct 2023 11:52AM
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Foilmate said..
Mine is slightly back from where my HA foils would be


Yes, that's my feeling I would say 1 or 2 cm for now. What do you think?

kobo
NSW, 1052 posts
4 Oct 2023 2:57PM
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Pacoo said..

kobo said..
Say whaaat ? I have it slammed as far forward as I can get it with as much tail angle as I can get and still can't get enough front foot pressure ! That's with the 180 speed tail.What tail are you using? It's the only foil I've ever ridden that the front foot pressure gets less the faster it goes.It's almost impossible to stall it and the low speed pump is as low as you could ever want , but it's not easy to turn at 1200 wide.



Interesting, I used the 202 pump with no shim. The board was the KT dragonfly 7,7.
Compared with the MA1750, I would say it needs to go 2cm back; and has a lot more front foot pressure.
Turning was feeling a bit better than the MA1750.
All downwind experience.


That is interesting, I found the MA1750 turned better and was faster but still had a high stall speed when pumping whereas the 1675 was virtually impossible to stall while pumping but was slower with less roll.I think it might be the 180 tail that is not giving enough push, It was recommended to me to use the 180 for DW as it's faster than the 202 tail and would keep up with the bumps better. I have maxed out at 25km/hr with the 180 on.

Pacoo
103 posts
4 Oct 2023 11:43PM
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kobo said..

Pacoo said..


kobo said..
Say whaaat ? I have it slammed as far forward as I can get it with as much tail angle as I can get and still can't get enough front foot pressure ! That's with the 180 speed tail.What tail are you using? It's the only foil I've ever ridden that the front foot pressure gets less the faster it goes.It's almost impossible to stall it and the low speed pump is as low as you could ever want , but it's not easy to turn at 1200 wide.




Interesting, I used the 202 pump with no shim. The board was the KT dragonfly 7,7.
Compared with the MA1750, I would say it needs to go 2cm back; and has a lot more front foot pressure.
Turning was feeling a bit better than the MA1750.
All downwind experience.



That is interesting, I found the MA1750 turned better and was faster but still had a high stall speed when pumping whereas the 1675 was virtually impossible to stall while pumping but was slower with less roll.I think it might be the 180 tail that is not giving enough push, It was recommended to me to use the 180 for DW as it's faster than the 202 tail and would keep up with the bumps better. I have maxed out at 25km/hr with the 180 on.


My max speed was 29 km/h, with the 202, sufficient to keep up with bumps in my area.
Turning feeling, perhaps has to do with a lack of accumulated speed during the turn; or just going slower.
I ordered one set 1675/202, so will see it in the long term.

FarNorthSurfer
140 posts
6 Oct 2023 3:20AM
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FWIW Not the same foil but I think its relevant, I have been struggling to get enough front foot pressure with a MA1750 on my Patrik AIO wing board which is fine with HS series foils. Have tried everything, slammed forward, shims, no shims. I was using the Flow 235 stab/795 Performance mast and a 60cm fuse. Turns were slow compared to all of the HS series foils I have.
Changed to a Glide 220 stab and a 70cm fuselage with no shims and it felt a lot better but think I need a board with more forward box placement. (thinking of waiting for the new FG)
The same set up on my Gong Crusader DW board has loads of front foot pressure only just in front of centre of the boxes so its fine oo that board. Had a really nice light wind small swell 10nm downwind on it yesterday cruising at 25/26 km/h. The Glide made it feel much better than the Flow and I think the 70cm fuselage is a good match. Its not like the 1750 snaps carves anyway so the 70cm is fine I think.

Windoc
373 posts
7 Oct 2023 12:46PM
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I just winged the APF1675 for the first time today on my 115L FG (normally SUP foil this board, but it doubles as a light wind board). I had the foil fully forward, 795 mast, 235 tail, blue shim, 60 fuse, 6-10 knots or so. It felt super eager to get on foil and pumped insane through lulls, as the wind was Swiss cheese. It was all about gliding and pumping from gust to lull to gust. What a light air machine! Somehow it even felt ok to turn. Can't wait to start DW with this set up! Way more stoked than I should be for such a light air/flat water session that had me eventually paddle in when the wind went below 6 knots...

Pacoo
103 posts
7 Oct 2023 12:49PM
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FarNorthSurfer said..
FWIW Not the same foil but I think its relevant, I have been struggling to get enough front foot pressure with a MA1750 on my Patrik AIO wing board which is fine with HS series foils. Have tried everything, slammed forward, shims, no shims. I was using the Flow 235 stab/795 Performance mast and a 60cm fuse. Turns were slow compared to all of the HS series foils I have.
Changed to a Glide 220 stab and a 70cm fuselage with no shims and it felt a lot better but think I need a board with more forward box placement. (thinking of waiting for the new FG)
The same set up on my Gong Crusader DW board has loads of front foot pressure only just in front of centre of the boxes so its fine oo that board. Had a really nice light wind small swell 10nm downwind on it yesterday cruising at 25/26 km/h. The Glide made it feel much better than the Flow and I think the 70cm fuselage is a good match. Its not like the 1750 snaps carves anyway so the 70cm is fine I think.


Same feeling here with the MA1750, fuse 70, mast 795, HS232 chopped. There is no front pressure at all, plus it tends to dive down at high speeds. The MA is good in the waves; but honestly a horrible wing for downwinding. Hard to pull up, poor glide, etc.

ninjatuna
194 posts
7 Oct 2023 1:43PM
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I rode my MA1750 in surf last week trying something new. It is a break that is about 400 yards offshore. I just had to deal with the takeoff that was in the chest high range and then the wave would mush out into a roller. I could then ride these all the way to the beach with ease. This was the first time trying this and it took me a few waves to get situated. But once I got got the feel it was a blast cruising. The glide was effortless. Had no problem with it wanting to dive. I was on the 7'4 Naish DW board 935/60/140 with a red shim.

I have ridden the same setup with the 220 tail in some waist high beach break that was basically the first sandbar off the beach and it would ride down the beach on knee high bumps in the trough with out even trying.

Pacoo, you might just need to get an MA tail. I have only ridden my MA wings with MA tails.

FarNorthSurfer
140 posts
8 Oct 2023 12:02AM
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Agree with comment on getting an MA stab. When I originally bought the MA1750 I only had HS232, Chopped HS232 or Flying V.
Tried them all and was quite underwhelmed with the new MA1750. The Flow235 improved it and the Glide 220 made it better again especially for glide.
Sorry for the thread creep from APF1675 but think the issue is the same with the new Armie foils, at least the larger sizes, they seem to work better with the matching stabs.

Pacoo
103 posts
8 Oct 2023 1:30PM
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FarNorthSurfer said..
Agree with comment on getting an MA stab. When I originally bought the MA1750 I only had HS232, Chopped HS232 or Flying V.
Tried them all and was quite underwhelmed with the new MA1750. The Flow235 improved it and the Glide 220 made it better again especially for glide.
Sorry for the thread creep from APF1675 but think the issue is the same with the new Armie foils, at least the larger sizes, they seem to work better with the matching stabs.


Thanks for the advice I may try it with the pump 202 in the next couple of weeks. Just to clarify, the MA1750 works excellent in the surf where handling at top speed is not an issue, but for downwind is awful over 25 km/h becames very difficult to gibe( ok that was no surprise) but several times at high speed the foil started to go down itself until I crashed.

Windoc
373 posts
9 Oct 2023 11:55PM
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Pacoo said..


Just to clarify, the MA1750 works excellent in the surf where handling at top speed is not an issue, but for downwind is awful over 25 km/h becames very difficult to gibe( ok that was no surprise) but several times at high speed the foil started to go down itself until I crashed.



I initially found exactly the same behaviour from my first MA, the 1225 with my HA195 tail. I'd reach my mid-upper speed range and the foil would go looking for pearls. Super frustrating. New MA/HA tails cured this behaviour. Surf and Flow 205/235 tails work great as does the Speed 180 and Dart 140. I've not tried the MA1750, but I've been really impressed by the MA1475's ability to pump and glide DW on the wing flagged out; maybe this foil is worth a try, Pacoo? 1475 also unlocked multiple connections every session for me in surf. Good speed and handling, no real quirks. Hoping to SUP DW on it eventually.

I'd love to hear others' experience on the 1675 with various tails and preferred shims. Good to know weight of rider too. (I'm 90kg+)

kobo
NSW, 1052 posts
10 Oct 2023 6:23AM
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Windoc said..

Pacoo said..


Just to clarify, the MA1750 works excellent in the surf where handling at top speed is not an issue, but for downwind is awful over 25 km/h becames very difficult to gibe( ok that was no surprise) but several times at high speed the foil started to go down itself until I crashed.




I initially found exactly the same behaviour from my first MA, the 1225 with my HA195 tail. I'd reach my mid-upper speed range and the foil would go looking for pearls. Super frustrating. New MA/HA tails cured this behaviour. Surf and Flow 205/235 tails work great as does the Speed 180 and Dart 140. I've not tried the MA1750, but I've been really impressed by the MA1475's ability to pump and glide DW on the wing flagged out; maybe this foil is worth a try, Pacoo? 1475 also unlocked multiple connections every session for me in surf. Good speed and handling, no real quirks. Hoping to SUP DW on it eventually.

I'd love to hear others' experience on the 1675 with various tails and preferred shims. Good to know weight of rider too. (I'm 90kg+)


Haven't tried the 205/235 tails but 1750/1675 foils didn't work with the 180 speed tail for me, both foils keep on wanting to nosedive.The 220 tail seem to work but then you can't turn because the tail is so big.

Windoc
373 posts
10 Oct 2023 7:19AM
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Kobo, I've been hearing similar things on the 220 so I've put off getting one for now. 235 seems to be working so I'll stick with it for a bit before making other changes or spending more $$$

ninjatuna
194 posts
10 Oct 2023 9:36AM
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My go to for SUP surf has been the 1225/205/60 combo. The first time I tried the 205 after the 235, I wondered if I will use 235 again. I would say just go for the 205 and skip the 235. I have used my 1225/205/60 combo a lot winging too. I am about 86kg.

kobo
NSW, 1052 posts
10 Oct 2023 1:29PM
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Windoc said..
Kobo, I've been hearing similar things on the 220 so I've put off getting one for now. 235 seems to be working so I'll stick with it for a bit before making other changes or spending more $$$


Windoc , I run my 1125/180 no probs ,but the 1750/1675 ,I haven't figured out yet , I've tried 195,180,KD13,crisp333 tails all up to -3 shim!.The crisp was the best so far as it provides more lift and it's the easiest to turn because it's not very wide. I've just purchased a 202 tail hoping that will solve the nosedive and I can get a balanced ride,if not might be time to change brands.

Pacoo
103 posts
10 Oct 2023 11:30AM
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kobo said..

Windoc said..
Kobo, I've been hearing similar things on the 220 so I've put off getting one for now. 235 seems to be working so I'll stick with it for a bit before making other changes or spending more $$$



Windoc , I run my 1125/180 no probs ,but the 1750/1675 ,I haven't figured out yet , I've tried 195,180,KD13,crisp333 tails all up to -3 shim!.The crisp was the best so far as it provides more lift and it's the easiest to turn because it's not very wide. I've just purchased a 202 tail hoping that will solve the nosedive and I can get a balanced ride,if not might be time to change brands.


Thanks all for the advice. I just tested the 1675/202 one day, but I never experienced a nose dive. The combo seems to reach top speed and stays there.
As the MA stays for a couple of weeks I may try it with the pump 202. What will be an ideal tail for a MA1475?

Windoc
373 posts
10 Oct 2023 10:24PM
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So far I like the 235 tail on the 1475 if I'm surfing or winging in less energy or want more platform for pumping. Turns are fairly drawn out and it feels almost too stable, but it's a reliable setup for making connections surfing or easy cruising down wind. I'll use the 205 to loosen it up a bit. Usually if conditions improve I'll just move to a 1225/180 or 1000/180, all red shim.

Foilmate
VIC, 22 posts
11 Oct 2023 9:32AM
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kobo said..

Windoc said..


Pacoo said..


Just to clarify, the MA1750 works excellent in the surf where handling at top speed is not an issue, but for downwind is awful over 25 km/h becames very difficult to gibe( ok that was no surprise) but several times at high speed the foil started to go down itself until I crashed.





I initially found exactly the same behaviour from my first MA, the 1225 with my HA195 tail. I'd reach my mid-upper speed range and the foil would go looking for pearls. Super frustrating. New MA/HA tails cured this behaviour. Surf and Flow 205/235 tails work great as does the Speed 180 and Dart 140. I've not tried the MA1750, but I've been really impressed by the MA1475's ability to pump and glide DW on the wing flagged out; maybe this foil is worth a try, Pacoo? 1475 also unlocked multiple connections every session for me in surf. Good speed and handling, no real quirks. Hoping to SUP DW on it eventually.

I'd love to hear others' experience on the 1675 with various tails and preferred shims. Good to know weight of rider too. (I'm 90kg+)



Haven't tried the 205/235 tails but 1750/1675 foils didn't work with the 180 speed tail for me, both foils keep on wanting to nosedive. The 220 tail seem to work but then you can't turn because the tail is so big.



Disagree with the 220 glide- try it with a 50cm fuse, I find it really easy to turn. I use the 220 with all my HA foils now + 1675 AFP.

I've started shimming the tail to lose some lift / add more speed as the 220 generates a lot of lift.

kobo
NSW, 1052 posts
11 Oct 2023 1:25PM
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Foilmate said..

kobo said..


Windoc said..



Pacoo said..


Just to clarify, the MA1750 works excellent in the surf where handling at top speed is not an issue, but for downwind is awful over 25 km/h becames very difficult to gibe( ok that was no surprise) but several times at high speed the foil started to go down itself until I crashed.






I initially found exactly the same behaviour from my first MA, the 1225 with my HA195 tail. I'd reach my mid-upper speed range and the foil would go looking for pearls. Super frustrating. New MA/HA tails cured this behaviour. Surf and Flow 205/235 tails work great as does the Speed 180 and Dart 140. I've not tried the MA1750, but I've been really impressed by the MA1475's ability to pump and glide DW on the wing flagged out; maybe this foil is worth a try, Pacoo? 1475 also unlocked multiple connections every session for me in surf. Good speed and handling, no real quirks. Hoping to SUP DW on it eventually.

I'd love to hear others' experience on the 1675 with various tails and preferred shims. Good to know weight of rider too. (I'm 90kg+)




Haven't tried the 205/235 tails but 1750/1675 foils didn't work with the 180 speed tail for me, both foils keep on wanting to nosedive. The 220 tail seem to work but then you can't turn because the tail is so big.




Disagree with the 220 glide- try it with a 50cm fuse, I find it really easy to turn. I use the 220 with all my HA foils now + 1675 AFP.

I've started shimming the tail to lose some lift / add more speed as the 220 generates a lot of lift.


For sure the 50 fuse makes all the foils turn easier , but I wanted to avoid for using DW because of the pitching it adds.

Windoc
373 posts
14 Oct 2023 6:22AM
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Had a pretty fun wing session on the 1675. Could have been on a smaller foil but hope to test the upper range. It went 18.5 knots without too much drama with 235 tail, red shim. Big lulls present and it laughed them off. Pretty good wing out turns too!

HISurf
5 posts
23 Oct 2023 4:22AM
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ninjatuna said..
My go to for SUP surf has been the 1225/205/60 combo. The first time I tried the 205 after the 235, I wondered if I will use 235 again. I would say just go for the 205 and skip the 235. I have used my 1225/205/60 combo a lot winging too. I am about 86kg.



Don't have the 1675 yet, but look forward to adding it before year end. to add to the tail discussion. Agree the 1225/205/60 is sweet and also thought that would be the end of using the 235. . , but.. try shimming the 235 to speed it up. Made a big difference with the 1475. Shimming added speed and loosened up the rather large 1475 in really small surf. Without the shim the 235 feels like it it's dragging. too much lift. Adding the Blue shim= better pump, red shim = still pumps but more speed. Next I'm going to try red and blue.. I'll add to thread when I get the spendy spend back on and buy the Pump foils. Aloha.

kobo
NSW, 1052 posts
23 Oct 2023 1:14PM
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Select to expand quote
kobo said..

Foilmate said..


kobo said..



Windoc said..




Pacoo said..


Just to clarify, the MA1750 works excellent in the surf where handling at top speed is not an issue, but for downwind is awful over 25 km/h becames very difficult to gibe( ok that was no surprise) but several times at high speed the foil started to go down itself until I crashed.







I initially found exactly the same behaviour from my first MA, the 1225 with my HA195 tail. I'd reach my mid-upper speed range and the foil would go looking for pearls. Super frustrating. New MA/HA tails cured this behaviour. Surf and Flow 205/235 tails work great as does the Speed 180 and Dart 140. I've not tried the MA1750, but I've been really impressed by the MA1475's ability to pump and glide DW on the wing flagged out; maybe this foil is worth a try, Pacoo? 1475 also unlocked multiple connections every session for me in surf. Good speed and handling, no real quirks. Hoping to SUP DW on it eventually.

I'd love to hear others' experience on the 1675 with various tails and preferred shims. Good to know weight of rider too. (I'm 90kg+)





Haven't tried the 205/235 tails but 1750/1675 foils didn't work with the 180 speed tail for me, both foils keep on wanting to nosedive. The 220 tail seem to work but then you can't turn because the tail is so big.





Disagree with the 220 glide- try it with a 50cm fuse, I find it really easy to turn. I use the 220 with all my HA foils now + 1675 AFP.

I've started shimming the tail to lose some lift / add more speed as the 220 generates a lot of lift.



For sure the 50 fuse makes all the foils turn easier , but I wanted to avoid for using DW because of the pitching it adds.


Ok I bought the 202 tail and it solved the nosedive problem with the 1675 and improved the turning and the pumping is amazing,Haven't tried the 50 fuse yet still on the 60 but I'm having some DW paddle up success now on the 1675 ,even though my longest run has only been 305m so far.

ninjatuna
194 posts
24 Oct 2023 6:52AM
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Select to expand quote
HISurf said..

ninjatuna said..
My go to for SUP surf has been the 1225/205/60 combo. The first time I tried the 205 after the 235, I wondered if I will use 235 again. I would say just go for the 205 and skip the 235. I have used my 1225/205/60 combo a lot winging too. I am about 86kg.




Don't have the 1675 yet, but look forward to adding it before year end. to add to the tail discussion. Agree the 1225/205/60 is sweet and also thought that would be the end of using the 235. . , but.. try shimming the 235 to speed it up. Made a big difference with the 1475. Shimming added speed and loosened up the rather large 1475 in really small surf. Without the shim the 235 feels like it it's dragging. too much lift. Adding the Blue shim= better pump, red shim = still pumps but more speed. Next I'm going to try red and blue.. I'll add to thread when I get the spendy spend back on and buy the Pump foils. Aloha.


Interesting about shimming the 235. Have to try that.

Pacoo
103 posts
28 Oct 2023 1:29PM
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Select to expand quote
kobo said..

kobo said..


Foilmate said..



kobo said..




Windoc said..





Pacoo said..


Just to clarify, the MA1750 works excellent in the surf where handling at top speed is not an issue, but for downwind is awful over 25 km/h becames very difficult to gibe( ok that was no surprise) but several times at high speed the foil started to go down itself until I crashed.








I initially found exactly the same behaviour from my first MA, the 1225 with my HA195 tail. I'd reach my mid-upper speed range and the foil would go looking for pearls. Super frustrating. New MA/HA tails cured this behaviour. Surf and Flow 205/235 tails work great as does the Speed 180 and Dart 140. I've not tried the MA1750, but I've been really impressed by the MA1475's ability to pump and glide DW on the wing flagged out; maybe this foil is worth a try, Pacoo? 1475 also unlocked multiple connections every session for me in surf. Good speed and handling, no real quirks. Hoping to SUP DW on it eventually.

I'd love to hear others' experience on the 1675 with various tails and preferred shims. Good to know weight of rider too. (I'm 90kg+)






Haven't tried the 205/235 tails but 1750/1675 foils didn't work with the 180 speed tail for me, both foils keep on wanting to nosedive. The 220 tail seem to work but then you can't turn because the tail is so big.






Disagree with the 220 glide- try it with a 50cm fuse, I find it really easy to turn. I use the 220 with all my HA foils now + 1675 AFP.

I've started shimming the tail to lose some lift / add more speed as the 220 generates a lot of lift.




For sure the 50 fuse makes all the foils turn easier , but I wanted to avoid for using DW because of the pitching it adds.



Ok I bought the 202 tail and it solved the nosedive problem with the 1675 and improved the turning and the pumping is amazing,Haven't tried the 50 fuse yet still on the 60 but I'm having some DW paddle up success now on the 1675 ,even though my longest run has only been 305m so far.


I tried the 1675, pump 202 in waves up to 1 meter (mushy) , and I'm amazed by how good it is compared to what it is marketed. The top speed and predictability are awesome, plus turning is still quite good.
I wish there were smaller models in the market.

kobo
NSW, 1052 posts
29 Oct 2023 4:48PM
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I found I really needed the right tail to get the 1675 to work (ie 202) , anything less didn't push down enough on the tail and the 1675 kept nosediving and hard to turn etc. The old story .it's amazing what a tail can do !

Pacoo
103 posts
30 Oct 2023 3:34AM
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kobo said..
I found I really needed the right tail to get the 1675 to work (ie 202) , anything less didn't push down enough on the tail and the 1675 kept nosediving and hard to turn etc. The old story .it's amazing what a tail can do !


According to my understanding the pump 202 has a lot of lift. Can you elaborate how the same tail will also counteract nosedive?
Im not saying it is not the case, but I would like to understand.
best

kobo
NSW, 1052 posts
30 Oct 2023 10:52AM
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Select to expand quote
Pacoo said..


kobo said..
I found I really needed the right tail to get the 1675 to work (ie 202) , anything less didn't push down enough on the tail and the 1675 kept nosediving and hard to turn etc. The old story .it's amazing what a tail can do !




According to my understanding the pump 202 has a lot of lift. Can you elaborate how the same tail will also counteract nosedive?
Im not saying it is not the case, but I would like to understand.
best



One of the main jobs of the tail is to keep the underwater airplane or foil rig flying in a nice level flight.
If the tail doesn't push down enough it allows the whole rig to point down which is felt as a nosedive.

This is mainly due to drag created from the front foil, and because the 1675 has a lot of camber and surface area it creates a lot of drag which requires more push down from the tail to maintain level flight.

I tried the 232,180, KD maui and crisp333 tails and non of them pushed down enough to maintain level flight. The 202 tail has a pronounced camber which does. Conversely if the tail pushes down too much it's felt as rising front foot pressure and then breaching. I hope that explains it, industry use terms like forward pitching moment as the drag created by the front foil making it want to swing back , and there are other factors like the front foil AOA and COG of board and rider on foil mast placement etc but basically that's what the tail does.

BTW when they talk about a tail like the 202 creating a lot of lift , it means that it pushes down harder and makes the front foil point up more and produce more lift.
The lift of the tail acts in the opposite direction to the lift of the front foil , the tail pushes down and front foil pushes up.



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Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling


"Armstron APF1675 mast position" started by Pacoo