Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Armstrong 2400 for Winging?

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Created by Rastaman3030 6 months ago, 31 Mar 2020
Raleigh
5 posts
29 Sep 2020 12:58AM
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Anyone have any experience comparing the 2400 V2 with the 1850? I see a few 1850 comments here on this 2400 thread but no direct comparison.

DB2
52 posts
29 Sep 2020 4:58AM
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I have only three days with the 1850, but already love it. I use it in light winds, just waiting for my own 6m wing. I like the higher speed/lower drag of the 1850 compared to the 2400. In our gusty conditions, you are often overpowered in gusts and the 2400 stops accelerating quickly resulting in higher holding forces.

Pasquales
49 posts
30 Sep 2020 8:44AM
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I have a question regarding the 2400 and winging. After purchasing an 1850/232/60 set up in August, I realized the 1850 probably wouldn't work on most summer days where I live. That same week, I came across a used 2400, and started my wing training. There haven't been too many windy days since getting my gear, so most time has been spent learning the basics - balancing while holding the wing, taxiing, knee starts, how to go upwind, etc....

Today had the most wind in two months - a wopping 11 knots ! I was on foil a lot of the time. However, there were moments when the board felt wobbly under my feet. It would typically occur well after being up on foil. When the wobbles happened, I would have to depower the wing and put the board back down, otherwise the twitching would send me over the side. Was this a result of not being balanced? My feet for the most part were right down the center line, with back foot right at the front of the foil. I don't think I was putting too much pressure on the back foot. If this was the case, wouldn't the foil would shoot upward and buck the rider off? The connections were all tight and seemed fine. In the past, when going down wind and stepping too forward the foil would shake. So I try not to step in that zone. Any feedback is appreciated.

Background -
-Weight 90 kgs, 180 cm height
-6m Slingwing, 120 liter 6'0" F-One Foil SUP
-No previous wind sport experience, well versed in short board surfing, some prone foiling.


hilly
WA, 5642 posts
30 Sep 2020 5:52PM
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Pasquales said..
I have a question regarding the 2400 and winging. After purchasing an 1850/232/60 set up in August, I realized the 1850 probably wouldn't work on most summer days where I live. That same week, I came across a used 2400, and started my wing training. There haven't been too many windy days since getting my gear, so most time has been spent learning the basics - balancing while holding the wing, taxiing, knee starts, how to go upwind, etc....

Today had the most wind in two months - a wopping 11 knots ! I was on foil a lot of the time. However, there were moments when the board felt wobbly under my feet. It would typically occur well after being up on foil. When the wobbles happened, I would have to depower the wing and put the board back down, otherwise the twitching would send me over the side. Was this a result of not being balanced? My feet for the most part were right down the center line, with back foot right at the front of the foil. I don't think I was putting too much pressure on the back foot. If this was the case, wouldn't the foil would shoot upward and buck the rider off? The connections were all tight and seemed fine. In the past, when going down wind and stepping too forward the foil would shake. So I try not to step in that zone. Any feedback is appreciated.

Background -
-Weight 90 kgs, 180 cm height
-6m Slingwing, 120 liter 6'0" F-One Foil SUP
-No previous wind sport experience, well versed in short board surfing, some prone foiling.




Are you almost breaching? The 2400 is so big you can surf on it :)

Pasquales
49 posts
30 Sep 2020 9:42PM
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It could have been. I noticed it when the wing was pointing slightly up, and not horizontal. Learning how to trim properly is going to take work, its hard to simulate in lite conditions.

Raleigh
5 posts
30 Sep 2020 11:30PM
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What size mast are you using? I saw in another thread or forum where someone mentioned the longer masts have too much flex for the 2400, which is kind of disappointing. Not sure if this is the case but something to consider.

hilly
WA, 5642 posts
30 Sep 2020 11:59PM
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Raleigh said..
What size mast are you using? I saw in another thread or forum where someone mentioned the longer masts have too much flex for the 2400, which is kind of disappointing. Not sure if this is the case but something to consider.


Used mine on a 72 and 85 mast. The 85 felt better - smoother and better pump.

kobo
NSW, 396 posts
1 Oct 2020 9:55PM
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hilly said..

kobo said...Checked later and it was 32.2 km/h.Had a couple of similar experiences proning on it with the 232/+1 and found as long as I hold a line and height it will stay there


With 212 tail and +1 it is comfortable at 34km/h +2 was even more controlled at speed. I lost feel for turning though, so went back to 0 shim. Still very controllable over 30km/h but easier to turn, I feel. I like a bit of drag but not too much Goldilocks combo for me.

SUP foiled on the 1550 and 850 mast (212 and 0 shim) yesterday in good waves, wow that is so much better than the 720 mast. No wingtips pocking out or rail hits even with sharp turns.


Don't tell me that Hilly , I don't want to fork out for a 850 but I know I will end up getting one,
Interesting you were comfortable at 34km with the 212 , Im still using the 300 for stability but will change to 232/212 in time , only done a couple of DW at this point but hopefully more this weekend.

hilly
WA, 5642 posts
2 Oct 2020 1:39AM
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Haha with 212 got 43kph yesterday and today so yes smaller tail = more speed.

emmafoils
207 posts
2 Oct 2020 8:11PM
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Raleigh said..
Anyone have any experience comparing the 2400 V2 with the 1850? I see a few 1850 comments here on this 2400 thread but no direct comparison.


Huge difference in low end. The 2400 just wants to come up. Trade off is that it is a lot slower and draggy.

Pasquales
49 posts
3 Oct 2020 4:32AM
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emmafoils said..

Huge difference in low end. The 2400 just wants to come up. Trade off is that it is a lot slower and draggy.



Is there a point when winging the 2400, where it can breach when going to fast ? Felt a weird twitch the other day that didn't make sense, like the foil almost felt skatey at one point. It happened well after being up on foil. I'm wondering if I was over accelerating, and needed to switch to the 1850.

hilly
WA, 5642 posts
3 Oct 2020 8:17AM
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emmafoils said..

Raleigh said..
Anyone have any experience comparing the 2400 V2 with the 1850? I see a few 1850 comments here on this 2400 thread but no direct comparison.



Huge difference in low end. The 2400 just wants to come up. Trade off is that it is a lot slower and draggy.


Disagree with low end. I can get up really early with the 1850 that is why I sold my 2400.

hilly
WA, 5642 posts
3 Oct 2020 8:23AM
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Pasquales said..

emmafoils said..


Huge difference in low end. The 2400 just wants to come up. Trade off is that it is a lot slower and draggy.




Is there a point when winging the 2400, where it can breach when going to fast ? Felt a weird twitch the other day that didn't make sense, like the foil almost felt skatey at one point. It happened well after being up on foil. I'm wondering if I was over accelerating, and needed to switch to the 1850.


When overdone with the 2400 you can get some odd behaviour almost like the tip cavities. Or it displaces so much water the turbulence causes the tail to lose some hold.

kobo
NSW, 396 posts
3 Oct 2020 5:33PM
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hilly said..
Haha with 212 got 43kph yesterday and today so yes smaller tail = more speed.


43 on the 1850? That's fast.

emmafoils
207 posts
3 Oct 2020 3:50PM
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hilly said..

emmafoils said..


Raleigh said..
Anyone have any experience comparing the 2400 V2 with the 1850? I see a few 1850 comments here on this 2400 thread but no direct comparison.




Huge difference in low end. The 2400 just wants to come up. Trade off is that it is a lot slower and draggy.



Disagree with low end. I can get up really early with the 1850 that is why I sold my 2400.


Not everyone may need the low end of the 2400...agreed. But the 2400 has much better low end than the 1850.

When I got my 1850 I liked it so much I used it exclusively for around 40 sessions and thought I was done with the 2400. The other day was very light and I used the 2400 just to see what it felt like because it had been awhile (didn't change anything else in the setup) I was amazed at how much more lift it has. Yes, it is bulky and slow but it has tons more low end lift than the 1850.

Larger SA, lower AR and much, much thicker.....it absolutely has better low end. Or are the rules of hydrodynamics different in the antipodes?

hilly
WA, 5642 posts
3 Oct 2020 7:42PM
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43 on the 1850? That's fast.


This was today. Super light. Peak speed is on a wave






Foilnut
38 posts
3 Oct 2020 8:48PM
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hilly said..
Haha with 212 got 43kph yesterday and today so yes smaller tail = more speed.


Hilly. 42 km/hr(23 knots) is impressive. With the 1850/232/60 setup my usual max is around 27 km/hr. Did you see a similar increase in speed when changing from 232 to 212 stab? Maybe it also comes down to your waves having more energy and steep? Our waves are all wind driven.

What sort of max speed can you get driving upwind?

kobo
NSW, 396 posts
4 Oct 2020 8:37AM
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hilly said..

43 on the 1850? That's fast.



This was today. Super light. Peak speed is on a wave







Im usually cruising around at 26km and my peak has been 34km , that's using the kite app on a garmin watch which is more reliable than the surf tracker app which used to gives me unreliable readings, what app are you using to record with Hilly ?

hilly
WA, 5642 posts
4 Oct 2020 5:47AM
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Foilnut said..

hilly said..
Haha with 212 got 43kph yesterday and today so yes smaller tail = more speed.



Hilly. 42 km/hr(23 knots) is impressive. With the 1850/232/60 setup my usual max is around 27 km/hr. Did you see a similar increase in speed when changing from 232 to 212 stab? Maybe it also comes down to your waves having more energy and steep? Our waves are all wind driven.

What sort of max speed can you get driving upwind?


You are exactly right the peak is on a proper ocean swell. Beating upwind very slow in the 20s. The 212 gave me 3 or 4 kph at the top end and more manoeuvrability. Downside is bit less upwind ability and a loss of stability in turns.

the playground



hilly
WA, 5642 posts
4 Oct 2020 5:53AM
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kobo said..

hilly said..


43 on the 1850? That's fast.




This was today. Super light. Peak speed is on a wave







Im usually cruising around at 26km and my peak has been 34km , that's using the kite app on a garmin watch which is more reliable than the surf tracker app which used to gives me unreliable readings, what app are you using to record with Hilly ?


Strava Apple Watch series 5.

bhc
VIC, 142 posts
4 Oct 2020 9:46AM
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What is the strongest wind a 76-78kg rider can comfortably foil with cf2400 and a 4m wing?

hilly
WA, 5642 posts
4 Oct 2020 7:55AM
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bhc said..
What is the strongest wind a 76-78kg rider can comfortably foil with cf2400 and a 4m wing?


That is a can of worms. Ability, board, ocean/flat, fuse length, tail, etc. Armstrong do not recommend it www.armstrongfoils.com/media/1890/armstrong-wing-size-guide.pdf

A wild guess would be 16 to 19 knots. 2400 would be unpleasant in those winds at your weight especially with a big sup, 60 fuse and 300 tail.

bhc
VIC, 142 posts
4 Oct 2020 10:42PM
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Thank you hilly.

Anybody else who wants to share their experience with cf2400 in 15+ knots?

I am primarily interested in this foil for light winds i.e. under 20 knots on the bay for more TOW. When it is 18+knots, I prefer windsurfing.

emmafoils
207 posts
4 Oct 2020 8:23PM
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bhc said..
Thank you hilly.

Anybody else who wants to share their experience with cf2400 in 15+ knots?

I am primarily interested in this foil for light winds i.e. under 20 knots on the bay for more TOW. When it is 18+knots, I prefer windsurfing.


Many of us look at the 2400 as great for learning, and then some keep it as a "session saver" while others choose to sell it. It is not much fun for the experienced foiler if there is enough wind for a smaller foil.

Raleigh
5 posts
4 Oct 2020 11:42PM
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emmafoils said..

bhc said..
Thank you hilly.

Anybody else who wants to share their experience with cf2400 in 15+ knots?

I am primarily interested in this foil for light winds i.e. under 20 knots on the bay for more TOW. When it is 18+knots, I prefer windsurfing.



Many of us look at the 2400 as great for learning, and then some keep it as a "session saver" while others choose to sell it. It is not much fun for the experienced foiler if there is enough wind for a smaller foil.


This is all super helpful, thank you! I ended up ordering the 1550 1850 and 2400. I'm debating on if the 1550 and 1850 are too close. I may end up sending the 2400 back. I'm 210cm tall and 95 kg.

Pasquales
49 posts
14 Oct 2020 12:40PM
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To be honest, ability for me has been the most important factor. I hit the part of the learning curve where not having a good understanding of wind sports slowed progression. During the past few sessions, I felt over powered on the 2400 and overwhelmed when the adjustments being tried had no effect. So until you can figure out how to better manage the issues, its easy to feel stuck in a loop. Having wing buddies with more experience has helped loads.



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"Armstrong 2400 for Winging?" started by Rastaman3030