Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Best way to start

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Created by Main 1 month ago, 2 Jun 2020
Main
QLD, 2190 posts
2 Jun 2020 8:23PM
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After watching for years I'm ready to get into foiling but would love some advice from you guys with experience. I'm an 80kg surfer and strapless kiter. Got a sup I muck around on occasionally as well. question is if I ultimately want to surf (prone) and I'm prepared to spend the $$ on beginner boards and gear and then upgrade again later in order to get there faster - what is the best way to start ? On a Sup (wondering if it's easier to start already standing) or straight to a bigger probe board ? ive got occasional access to skis and boats but most likely will just keep practicing in the surf till it clicks. cheers

tomooh
193 posts
2 Jun 2020 6:43PM
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I recently sold a Neil pryde foil to a guy that wanted to prone foil. He got a 5 ft 6 board and after 10 hours water time is getting it and Is hooked. If he had started with a Sup it would have been a while before he got onto a prone board.

ninjatuna
56 posts
2 Jun 2020 8:36PM
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If you have the access to a boat or ski, that is a big help in the beginning just in terms of time up on the foil and getting the feeling. You can totally learn just surfing prone or standup. The boat time will just accelerate that learning a lot. You also say you are a capable kiter. That is another way to speed up the process. To me, it was all about the initial time up on the foil first, making all the other foiling options easier to learn.

toppleover
QLD, 1682 posts
3 Jun 2020 7:40AM
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If your a surfer, I'd go straight to a prone board - my 2c.

1. A massive board doesn't necessarily make it any easier, just going about 5L more than your short board volume is plenty for learning (if your a competent surfer).
2. Don't skimp on the foil, I've seen plenty of newbies struggling on old gear.
3. Learn in the right conditions & away from other's.
4. Have fun

Main
QLD, 2190 posts
3 Jun 2020 8:24AM
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Thanks Guys - probably saved some money as well skipping the SUP step.

Will get some gear this week and get into it...

juandesooka
353 posts
3 Jun 2020 6:42AM
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I did the sup foil thing first, then prone after. Which I think is easier, but then I hadn't really honestly shortboarded much in prior 10 years, so the popup thing was a challenge.

I agree that if you can get your initial foiling in by boat or kite first, it will really help. There is a lot going on in those 2-3 seconds from catching the wave, to popping up, to getting up on foil, and then accelerating. If you already know what to expect and how a foil feels, you'll be way ahead and save some frustration and possible pain.

A boat is ideal: constant power. Short mast is ideal to start. You want to go really slow to start, get a feel for pumping to pop it up on foil and slowly fall back down, then increase a little when comfortable until you can stay on foil regularly. But when you start to fall, don't try to correct, jump off and away ... initial wipeouts involve you correcting the wrong way, pushing on the wrong rail, and getting the foil in the face (the dreaded switchblade wipeout). The hard thing to get your head around, you aren't edging a board like normal, you are actually moving an edge 2 feet below that, think of your legs as extending through the board down to the wings ... that's what you need to be directing. And if you have more time, you can start doing turns in the wake and even get to the point of letting the rope go and just foil the wake....then the prone surf foil will come easy.

Under a kite is good too, though you have to also worry about flying the kite. If you have a kite foil, then you'll want a fair bit of power, more or less same as using a surfboard. If you're on a larger surf foil, then you need less kite power -- as soon as you're up on foil, you'll quickly get overpowered and breach. The water start takes some getting used to if strapless....easier at the beginning if you have foot hooks or a single front strap (loose).

Hope that helps!

kobo
NSW, 255 posts
3 Jun 2020 10:06AM
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I was a surfer and kiter and I found both those the easiest for me to learn foiling.
The boat tow is a great idea , but once you get the feel move onto surfing prone or kiting flat water.
The kite is the easiest of the 2, because you have a constant power source and the kite supports you which helps with balance and you can do longer runs. I recon add foiling to whatever sport you can do best already, and forget trying to learn foiling in a new sport....almost impossible.

toppleover
QLD, 1682 posts
3 Jun 2020 11:54AM
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Select to expand quote
kobo said..
I was a surfer and kiter and I found both those the easiest for me to learn foiling.
The boat tow is a great idea , but once you get the feel move onto surfing prone or kiting flat water.
The kite is the easiest of the 2, because you have a constant power source and the kite supports you which helps with balance and you can do longer runs. I recon add foiling to whatever sport you can do best already, and forget trying to learn foiling in a new sport....almost impossible.


Totally agree about learning with a kite, that's how I did it - bought a prone setup & took it out with the kite first.

All my kite gear has since been sold.

emmafoils
167 posts
3 Jun 2020 3:20PM
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I would skip the kite foil learning curve. Go prone foiling but pick your waves carefully until dialed in.

Main
QLD, 2190 posts
3 Jun 2020 8:00PM
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Got the boat lined up for the weekend and picked up the new gear today. Took the advice and went for the prone board rather than sup to start. Can't wait

hilly
WA, 5353 posts
3 Jun 2020 6:18PM
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Is that mast track waaaay forward?

Piros
QLD, 5908 posts
3 Jun 2020 8:59PM
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hilly said..
Is that mast track waaaay forward?



Yeah way forward ....... might not be bolted on just sitting there

Main
QLD, 2190 posts
4 Jun 2020 7:10AM
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Piros said..

hilly said..
Is that mast track waaaay forward?




Yeah way forward ....... might not be bolted on just sitting there


Just balancing for photo

Main
QLD, 2190 posts
4 Jun 2020 7:11AM
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Piros said..

hilly said..
Is that mast track waaaay forward?




Yeah way forward ....... might not be bolted on just sitting there


Just balancing for photo

Fitzsup
NSW, 148 posts
4 Jun 2020 7:19AM
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Piros said..

hilly said..
Is that mast track waaaay forward?




Yeah way forward ....... might not be bolted on just sitting there


I would have thought when learning,the mast should be all the way forward in the tracks for early lift???

Am I wrong ???

tomooh
193 posts
4 Jun 2020 6:03AM
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Normally start at the back of tracks when learning

Alysum
NSW, 492 posts
4 Jun 2020 8:11AM
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tomooh said..
Normally start at the back of tracks when learning


Yes correct otherwise the lift is too soon without warning. You need to learn the gradual lift way to improve starts

Fitzsup
NSW, 148 posts
4 Jun 2020 10:04AM
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Alysum said..

tomooh said..
Normally start at the back of tracks when learning



Yes correct otherwise the lift is too soon without warning. You need to learn the gradual lift way to improve starts


Thanks guys,maybe that's why I'm having so much trouble,I was told move it forward to plane early.

So do you suggest all the way backing the tracks???








juandesooka
353 posts
4 Jun 2020 8:34AM
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Select to expand quote
Fitzsup said..


Alysum said..



tomooh said..
Normally start at the back of tracks when learning





Yes correct otherwise the lift is too soon without warning. You need to learn the gradual lift way to improve starts




Thanks guys,maybe that's why I'm having so much trouble,I was told move it forward to plane early.

So do you suggest all the way backing the tracks???










correct, start all the way back. You ideally want your initial attempts to be mostly surface riding and just barely able to get up on a foil momentarily. Get a feel for the board, get a feel for the foil rising up -- controlled. Then you can start to learn the body positioning and leg movements to get up on foil more consistently, while playing with the settings too (moving mast forward increases lift). You'll find the happy place with perfect trim.

In contrast: too big a wing, too far forward, in too much surf, is the equivalent of trying to jump on the back of a horse riding by at a gallop. Your foil will be rising before you can even get your feet and you will get tossed all over the place. That is where foiling is scary and dangerous ... bad things happen really fast.

PS one exception to this is wind winging: need to maximize lift, biggest wing you can find as far forward as you can get it, so can get board unstuck ... saving you mad arm pumping and long walks of shame from downwind.

Fitzsup
NSW, 148 posts
4 Jun 2020 11:20AM
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Select to expand quote
juandesooka said..

Fitzsup said..



Alysum said..




tomooh said..
Normally start at the back of tracks when learning






Yes correct otherwise the lift is too soon without warning. You need to learn the gradual lift way to improve starts





Thanks guys,maybe that's why I'm having so much trouble,I was told move it forward to plane early.

So do you suggest all the way backing the tracks???











correct, start all the way back. You ideally want your initial attempts to be mostly surface riding and just barely able to get up on a foil momentarily. Get a feel for the board, get a feel for the foil rising up -- controlled. Then you can start to learn the body positioning and leg movements to get up on foil more consistently, while playing with the settings too (moving mast forward increases lift). You'll find the happy place with perfect trim.

In contrast: too big a wing, too far forward, in too much surf, is the equivalent of trying to jump on the back of a horse riding by at a gallop. Your foil will be rising before you can even get your feet and you will get tossed all over the place. That is where foiling is scary and dangerous ... bad things happen really fast.

PS one exception to this is wind winging: need to maximize lift, biggest wing you can find as far forward as you can get it, so can get board unstuck ... saving you mad arm pumping and long walks of shame from downwind.


Thx for all the help appreciate it

Seajuice
NSW, 620 posts
4 Jun 2020 1:47PM
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Did you guys have to tell him the mast was too far forward.
I would rather ask where he was going to surf it so I could watch. Haaa!

Fitzsup
NSW, 148 posts
4 Jun 2020 2:38PM
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Seajuice said..
Did you guys have to tell him the mast was too far forward.
I would rather ask where he was going to surf it so I could watch. Haaa!



Sea juice I'll take a GoPro and post videos

Too many tourists up here as it is.

Happy to make people laugh.

Mate I was out in 25kts+ today with a 5mtr.wing,you would have had a good old fashion belly laugh at the faceplants I had.

foil all the way forward,never thought to change it for surfing

Seajuice
NSW, 620 posts
4 Jun 2020 4:49PM
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warwickl
NSW, 1435 posts
4 Jun 2020 5:17PM
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Select to expand quote
juandesooka said..

Fitzsup said..



Alysum said..




tomooh said..
Normally start at the back of tracks when learning






Yes correct otherwise the lift is too soon without warning. You need to learn the gradual lift way to improve starts





Thanks guys,maybe that's why I'm having so much trouble,I was told move it forward to plane early.

So do you suggest all the way backing the tracks???











correct, start all the way back. You ideally want your initial attempts to be mostly surface riding and just barely able to get up on a foil momentarily. Get a feel for the board, get a feel for the foil rising up -- controlled. Then you can start to learn the body positioning and leg movements to get up on foil more consistently, while playing with the settings too (moving mast forward increases lift). You'll find the happy place with perfect trim.

In contrast: too big a wing, too far forward, in too much surf, is the equivalent of trying to jump on the back of a horse riding by at a gallop. Your foil will be rising before you can even get your feet and you will get tossed all over the place. That is where foiling is scary and dangerous ... bad things happen really fast.

PS one exception to this is wind winging: need to maximize lift, biggest wing you can find as far forward as you can get it, so can get board unstuck ... saving you mad arm pumping and long walks of shame from downwind.


My experience is mast position also depends on type of foil wing and board track position e.g. for Windwing I have an 1100 high aspect thin and a 873 thick low aspect wing.
The 873 needs to be 3 cm further back in the track than the 1100.

ninjatuna
56 posts
4 Jun 2020 8:43PM
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www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Foiling/Foil-Frothers-Info-night-with-JB-and-James-Casey-Video

Just to add.

From what I learned in this video, I have taught about a dozen people behind my boat. This helps with the basics for beginning.

Main
QLD, 2190 posts
6 Jun 2020 2:06PM
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Thanks guys !
had my first session this morning and only got hit twice !!
Can control the height - got to learn to pump now !! Found pumping pretty hard.





emmafoils
167 posts
6 Jun 2020 4:49PM
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Main said..
Thanks guys !
had my first session this morning and only got hit twice !!
Can control the height - got to learn to pump now !! Found pumping pretty hard.






Looks good but a beginner behind a boat without a helmet makes me wince.



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"Best way to start" started by Main