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DW foiling

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Created by frenchfoiler 7 months ago, 21 Oct 2019
frenchfoiler
149 posts
18 Jan 2020 4:25PM
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Hdip said..
That link doesn't seem to work for me.


www.instagram.com/p/B7a1JSGI1FH/

frenchfoiler
149 posts
19 Jan 2020 3:49AM
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frenchfoiler said..
After doing many dw lately, I noticed a big difference between dw with a mix of open ocean swell/wind swell and dw in more protected area with mostly wind swell (at least with medium/light wind, if it is 20nd+ wind swell get powerfull enough).

When you have open ocean swell you definetly feel the push and a fast wing is what you need even if the wind is light.

But when it comes to medium/light wind with only wind swell, it seems to me that the bigger wings (like Axis 102) are still usefull.
You might be slower but way easier to keep up. With a hight aspect foil or a smaller wing you go faster but if you don't have a really good technique and the cardio to keep up it gets hard.

What do you think ? I'm pretty sure the best guys on small fast wing can do great even on light wind no swell powerfull swell ?

I'm wondering if a big hight aspect wing (at least 1800 cm2) would be the solution ?

The biggest i see is the Signature Albatross 250which is 1615 cm2 and Gofoil GL 240 but I don't know how big it is.
Takuma LOL 1900 is not a hight aspect wing but the 1600 seems to work really good in DW, so maybe the 1900 is really good as well on technical dw ?



Except Takuma seems that the best dw foil are the hight aspect :

I found this number for Gofoil GL but not sure those are correct (seems low especially the 180) :
GL 240 = 1548 cm2
GL 210 = 1354 cm2
GL 180 = 1161 cm2

Axis 101 : 1430 cm2
Axis 100 : 1388 cm2
Axis 90 : 1277 cm2

Sig/Unifoil :
250 = 1612 cm2
230 = 1483 cm2
210 = 1354 cm2
190 = 1225 cm2

But I guess the surface is not everything, the thickness has a real impact on the speed. The stab also is very important.

Piros
QLD, 5837 posts
19 Jan 2020 5:06PM
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Don't agree on those numbers above . Let's start on the Uni/Signature 210 same as GF 180 say 1350 cm2 so close to the Axis 100 which really is a good sized wing foil wing. The Uni/Sig are the most highest aspect even compared to the GF which are a bit thicker. The Takuma 1600 you would put up against these but they have a way deeper cord but still high aspect like the Lift Foils. Very different wings with good low speed lift and slow stall speed re the Takumas but not the Lift Foils. The rear wings are so important , too much junk in the trunk slows you down and causes blow outs but does give superior low speed glide. My advice on the the above is find the minimum front wing above and refine your rear wing to suit your needs. It's really easy to go big and fat on the rear but as soon as you get big speed the rear is what blows you out.

frenchfoiler
149 posts
19 Jan 2020 4:21PM
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Piros said..
Don't agree on those numbers above . Let's start on the Uni/Signature 210 same as GF 180 say 1350 cm2 so close to the Axis 100 which really is a good sized wing foil wing. The Uni/Sig are the most highest aspect even compared to the GF which are a bit thicker. The Takuma 1600 you would put up against these but they have a way deeper cord but still high aspect like the Lift Foils. Very different wings with good low speed lift and slow stall speed re the Takumas but not the Lift Foils. The rear wings are so important , too much junk in the trunk slows you down and causes blow outs but does give superior low speed glide. My advice on the the above is find the minimum front wing above and refine your rear wing to suit your needs. It's really easy to go big and fat on the rear but as soon as you get big speed the rear is what blows you out.


Yes that is what I thought for the Gofoil GL surface, I found those number on a surfshop website.

PeterP
651 posts
20 Jan 2020 1:45PM
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frenchfoiler said..

Piros said..
Don't agree on those numbers above . Let's start on the Uni/Signature 210 same as GF 180 say 1350 cm2 so close to the Axis 100 which really is a good sized wing foil wing. The Uni/Sig are the most highest aspect even compared to the GF which are a bit thicker. The Takuma 1600 you would put up against these but they have a way deeper cord but still high aspect like the Lift Foils. Very different wings with good low speed lift and slow stall speed re the Takumas but not the Lift Foils. The rear wings are so important , too much junk in the trunk slows you down and causes blow outs but does give superior low speed glide. My advice on the the above is find the minimum front wing above and refine your rear wing to suit your needs. It's really easy to go big and fat on the rear but as soon as you get big speed the rear is what blows you out.



Yes that is what I thought for the Gofoil GL surface, I found those number on a surfshop website.


Would be nice if GoFoil would care to share how they get their numbers as I can't work it out???

Uni/Signature use sq. inch and most others use sq.cm.

Axis use of wingspan also doesn't sit too well with me either, area is the single numerical unit that says the most about the potential lift and speed and thus what to expect from the foil.

frenchfoiler
149 posts
7 Mar 2020 2:44AM
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Do you know if there will be a live for 12 Towers race ? Who is gonna do the foil ?

paul.j
QLD, 2964 posts
7 Mar 2020 6:55AM
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frenchfoiler said..
Do you know if there will be a live for 12 Towers race ? Who is gonna do the foil ?


No live for the foil race at the moment.

We were ment to do it yesterday but no wind so we are doing it today after the the Tech race. Maybe about 12 to 15 foilers.

If some one can get on a ski we will try and shoot some footage

paul.j
QLD, 2964 posts
7 Mar 2020 7:26PM
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12 towers results
1) James Casey gofoil custom/ Sunova
2) Beau OBrien Takuma 1600/custom DC NSP
4) Paul Jackson Takuma 1300/ ONE foils board
5) Guy (1st wing ding) Axis/ Sunova
6) Steve Walker Takuma 1900/ONE foil board
7) Mark Renny Axis 101( I think) DC
8) Dylan Constable gofoil 200 DC
9) Ash Wooly (2nd wing ding) Unifoil/
10) John Hagen Axis/ Sunoca
11) Dale Chapman custom wing/DC
12) Ty Judson custom wing/ custom NSP
13) Lee McLean Takuma 1900/ONE
14) Rob Pirie (3rd wing ding) Takuma 1600/Fanatic
DNF Chris Parker
DNF Keale Dorries
DNF Alison Fulligar
DNF Michael Brown (wing ding)
Savannah Fitzsimmons (wing sup)

frenchfoiler
149 posts
14 Mar 2020 3:17PM
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Here is an article I did for totalsup about dw foiling, probably more to say and other advices to give but the idea was to let people know the learning curve, key is to go step by step.

www.totalsup.com/news/how-to-downwind-foil-greg-closier/

PeterP
651 posts
15 Mar 2020 3:37PM
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frenchfoiler said..
Here is an article I did for totalsup about dw foiling, probably more to say and other advices to give but the idea was to let people know the learning curve, key is to go step by step.

www.totalsup.com/news/how-to-downwind-foil-greg-closier/


Very nice Greg!

Even though you emphasize it several times; it is so, so tough and so, so humbling......Conditions, equipment, and mindset have to be top-notch. And being under 50yo (read 90kg) also helps.

Dommo49
21 posts
19 Mar 2020 4:21PM
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frenchfoiler said..
Here is an article I did for totalsup about dw foiling, probably more to say and other advices to give but the idea was to let people know the learning curve, key is to go step by step.

www.totalsup.com/news/how-to-downwind-foil-greg-closier/


Awesome article Greg, thanks. Very useful for me as I'm trying to learn to downwind foil. Using a GoFoil Maliko 280 I can ride a fairly small boat wake reasonably well without a rope (getting 4 minutes plus), I'm trying my best to learn flat water pumping (can do about a hundred yards or so but still haven't managed to turn and get back to the start point yet), I use a wind wing regularly (beginning to get the hang of gybing and riding toe side) and have just started to try downwinding with the wind wing, all with the end goal being to develop the skills I need to foil surf and do long downwind runs. You're right in your article about downwinding with a wind wing having its own challenges - in my local area (Muscat, Oman) the wind is rarely above 15 knots, in fact it's mostly 12-14 knots, so I am having to constantly hold the wing above my head, because if I try to hold it out to luff it, the trailing edge just tips down in front of me, catches the water and trips me up. I assume thats because the wind isn't strong enough which means when I start to ride the swell, my board speed is more than the wind speed and I'm overtaking the wing - I could be wrong but that's my theory at the moment. Any advise on this? Am I wasting my time with such little wind, or is it possible to ride the swell without much wind?
Aside from this problem this there is usually a good amount of wind swell, which brings me to my next question - do you have any advise on how to read the ocean to know where to steer? I saw a video which said you had to stay high up on the bumps. Some of the time I can see where to go and manage to generate enough speed, but many times I lose power, so I lose speed, and unless I bring the wind wing down to use its power, I would drop off the foil. Do you have any advise for knowing where to steer in order to keep enough power/speed to maintain flight? I would love to do some SUP foil downwind clinics. Do you do these or know where they take place.
Lots of questions, sorry. Loving this new sport but finding it frustrating knowing that my progress could be so much better if I had a bit more guidance.
Would appreciate any advise from those who know how to downwind. Thanks in advance!

Dom

frenchfoiler
149 posts
19 Mar 2020 6:33PM
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Dommo49 said..

frenchfoiler said..
Here is an article I did for totalsup about dw foiling, probably more to say and other advices to give but the idea was to let people know the learning curve, key is to go step by step.

www.totalsup.com/news/how-to-downwind-foil-greg-closier/



Awesome article Greg, thanks. Very useful for me as I'm trying to learn to downwind foil. Using a GoFoil Maliko 280 I can ride a fairly small boat wake reasonably well without a rope (getting 4 minutes plus), I'm trying my best to learn flat water pumping (can do about a hundred yards or so but still haven't managed to turn and get back to the start point yet), I use a wind wing regularly (beginning to get the hang of gybing and riding toe side) and have just started to try downwinding with the wind wing, all with the end goal being to develop the skills I need to foil surf and do long downwind runs. You're right in your article about downwinding with a wind wing having its own challenges - in my local area (Muscat, Oman) the wind is rarely above 15 knots, in fact it's mostly 12-14 knots, so I am having to constantly hold the wing above my head, because if I try to hold it out to luff it, the trailing edge just tips down in front of me, catches the water and trips me up. I assume thats because the wind isn't strong enough which means when I start to ride the swell, my board speed is more than the wind speed and I'm overtaking the wing - I could be wrong but that's my theory at the moment. Any advise on this? Am I wasting my time with such little wind, or is it possible to ride the swell without much wind?
Aside from this problem this there is usually a good amount of wind swell, which brings me to my next question - do you have any advise on how to read the ocean to know where to steer? I saw a video which said you had to stay high up on the bumps. Some of the time I can see where to go and manage to generate enough speed, but many times I lose power, so I lose speed, and unless I bring the wind wing down to use its power, I would drop off the foil. Do you have any advise for knowing where to steer in order to keep enough power/speed to maintain flight? I would love to do some SUP foil downwind clinics. Do you do these or know where they take place.
Lots of questions, sorry. Loving this new sport but finding it frustrating knowing that my progress could be so much better if I had a bit more guidance.
Would appreciate any advise from those who know how to downwind. Thanks in advance!

Dom


Hi Dom, glad you like my article.
Unfortunatly I don't do wind wing but Piros would probably give you more useful information.


How are the bumps ? Steep ? Only wind swell or do you have also open ocean swell ?

I do some clinic but in France.

Feel free to ask anything, I have lots of free time right now being stuck home with the covid19...

Dommo49
21 posts
20 Mar 2020 12:01AM
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frenchfoiler said..

Dommo49 said..


frenchfoiler said..
Here is an article I did for totalsup about dw foiling, probably more to say and other advices to give but the idea was to let people know the learning curve, key is to go step by step.

www.totalsup.com/news/how-to-downwind-foil-greg-closier/




Awesome article Greg, thanks. Very useful for me as I'm trying to learn to downwind foil. Using a GoFoil Maliko 280 I can ride a fairly small boat wake reasonably well without a rope (getting 4 minutes plus), I'm trying my best to learn flat water pumping (can do about a hundred yards or so but still haven't managed to turn and get back to the start point yet), I use a wind wing regularly (beginning to get the hang of gybing and riding toe side) and have just started to try downwinding with the wind wing, all with the end goal being to develop the skills I need to foil surf and do long downwind runs. You're right in your article about downwinding with a wind wing having its own challenges - in my local area (Muscat, Oman) the wind is rarely above 15 knots, in fact it's mostly 12-14 knots, so I am having to constantly hold the wing above my head, because if I try to hold it out to luff it, the trailing edge just tips down in front of me, catches the water and trips me up. I assume thats because the wind isn't strong enough which means when I start to ride the swell, my board speed is more than the wind speed and I'm overtaking the wing - I could be wrong but that's my theory at the moment. Any advise on this? Am I wasting my time with such little wind, or is it possible to ride the swell without much wind?
Aside from this problem this there is usually a good amount of wind swell, which brings me to my next question - do you have any advise on how to read the ocean to know where to steer? I saw a video which said you had to stay high up on the bumps. Some of the time I can see where to go and manage to generate enough speed, but many times I lose power, so I lose speed, and unless I bring the wind wing down to use its power, I would drop off the foil. Do you have any advise for knowing where to steer in order to keep enough power/speed to maintain flight? I would love to do some SUP foil downwind clinics. Do you do these or know where they take place.
Lots of questions, sorry. Loving this new sport but finding it frustrating knowing that my progress could be so much better if I had a bit more guidance.
Would appreciate any advise from those who know how to downwind. Thanks in advance!

Dom



Hi Dom, glad you like my article.
Unfortunatly I don't do wind wing but Piros would probably give you more useful information.


How are the bumps ? Steep ? Only wind swell or do you have also open ocean swell ?

I do some clinic but in France.

Feel free to ask anything, I have lots of free time right now being stuck home with the covid19...


Yeah - same thing here unfortunately. Lockdown sucks!

I can't really compare the swell we get here with anything else as I haven't been anywhere else as yet, although if the flight restrictions are over by Summer I hope to go to Morocco to a place that is renowned for its good downwind runs.
I'm pretty sure its just wind swell where we are. It varies in size, there are patches where the swell is always bigger, and in these parts if I catch it right it can generate wicked speed on my Maliko 200 - too much for the 280, but for most days the 280 is definitey best.

I'm really trying to figure out how to read and ride the swell for downwinding, whether I'm using a wind wing or a paddle. When I watch youtube videos of people doing downwind runs they seem to be going in a straight line for ages, just turning occasionally. When i do this my speed drops really quickly and I come off the foil. I've tried turning left and right which helps to keep my speed up for a while, but I can never recognise where its best to go to keep my speed up, i seem to get different results from doing the same thing. Is there anything I should be looking out for in the swell, any patterns to head for? I watched a video where the guy said to stay high to maintain the power. I'm sure its my lack of experience but I cant figure out how to stay high. Should I be constantly turning from side to side to stay in the swell's power? Are there any videos that you would recommend that shows what it looks like?

Who knows, if Morocco doesn't come off maybe I could visit you for some downwind clinics this summer.

Cheers, Dom

frenchfoiler
149 posts
20 Mar 2020 12:44AM
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I'm really trying to figure out how to read and ride the swell for downwinding, whether I'm using a wind wing or a paddle. When I watch youtube videos of people doing downwind runs they seem to be going in a straight line for ages, just turning occasionally. When i do this my speed drops really quickly and I come off the foil. I've tried turning left and right which helps to keep my speed up for a while, but I can never recognise where its best to go to keep my speed up, i seem to get different results from doing the same thing. Is there anything I should be looking out for in the swell, any patterns to head for? I watched a video where the guy said to stay high to maintain the power. I'm sure its my lack of experience but I cant figure out how to stay high. Should I be constantly turning from side to side to stay in the swell's power? Are there any videos that you would recommend that shows what it looks like?

Who knows, if Morocco doesn't come off maybe I could visit you for some downwind clinics this summer.

Cheers, Dom


How long can you stay flying, do you use your paddle to connect bumps ?

The idea is to stay hight on the bump, try be as light as possible, if you loose speed and you are between two bumps, you need to make the foil going up by pumping (by paddling especially if you use a slow foil).

On video with people riding effortless it is hard to see but, the swell, the wind, the rider, the foil, so many things that makes things easier or not.

In this video I don't use my paddle to speed up because the wind is super strong and I'm using a fast foil, I'm not trying to go fast I'm trying to enjoy the ride doing turns.
www.instagram.com/p/B7a1JSGI1FH/

In this video (one year ago, Maliko200) Eric is using his paddle to keep up.
www.instagram.com/p/BxZnfQ4oIpU/

In this video (one year ago Maliko200) Jako is not doing much, just a slight ajustment from time to time to keep the foil up.
www.instagram.com/p/BlwsYOVHPI4/


Just like anything, the more you do, the faster you will understand.

Dommo49
21 posts
20 Mar 2020 2:50AM
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frenchfoiler said..

I'm really trying to figure out how to read and ride the swell for downwinding, whether I'm using a wind wing or a paddle. When I watch youtube videos of people doing downwind runs they seem to be going in a straight line for ages, just turning occasionally. When i do this my speed drops really quickly and I come off the foil. I've tried turning left and right which helps to keep my speed up for a while, but I can never recognise where its best to go to keep my speed up, i seem to get different results from doing the same thing. Is there anything I should be looking out for in the swell, any patterns to head for? I watched a video where the guy said to stay high to maintain the power. I'm sure its my lack of experience but I cant figure out how to stay high. Should I be constantly turning from side to side to stay in the swell's power? Are there any videos that you would recommend that shows what it looks like?

Who knows, if Morocco doesn't come off maybe I could visit you for some downwind clinics this summer.

Cheers, Dom



How long can you stay flying, do you use your paddle to connect bumps ?

The idea is to stay hight on the bump, try be as light as possible, if you loose speed and you are between two bumps, you need to make the foil going up by pumping (by paddling especially if you use a slow foil).

On video with people riding effortless it is hard to see but, the swell, the wind, the rider, the foil, so many things that makes things easier or not.

In this video I don't use my paddle to speed up because the wind is super strong and I'm using a fast foil, I'm not trying to go fast I'm trying to enjoy the ride doing turns.
www.instagram.com/p/B7a1JSGI1FH/

In this video (one year ago, Maliko200) Eric is using his paddle to keep up.
www.instagram.com/p/BxZnfQ4oIpU/

In this video (one year ago Maliko200) Jako is not doing much, just a slight ajustment from time to time to keep the foil up.
www.instagram.com/p/BlwsYOVHPI4/


Just like anything, the more you do, the faster you will understand.


Ok that all makes sense - the videos help too, thanks. Time for practice!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hdip
61 posts
20 Mar 2020 2:59AM
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How much for a downwind sup board? Malibu had one of those good wind days yesterday that had me searching for an outside boil to chip in off of with my prone board.
you know the kind. www.instagram.com/p/BuAnxAfjuk2/?igshid=1ngwxcyep4e2o
I didn't find anything that looked doable though. Ended up just working.

here is a good video where he talks you through what to look for downwind.

Piros
QLD, 5837 posts
20 Mar 2020 6:53AM
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Hi Dom re the downwind on the wing in the ocean in lighter winds you constantly need to bear off to the side and re load the wing when you loose power . Few other tricks is kept it lofted above your head and pump with your legs to climb over the bump in front , you combine this with pumping your arms as well . This will actually pull you over the trough in front but can get exhausting in light wind , so as I said above bear off or tack away across the swell or drop into the trough behind to build speed then straighten up. Going straight downwind is very technical but when get the hang of it you can actually tow the wing behind you one handed . This is an incredible feeling and super addictive.

Check out my track below I had the wind on my back but you can see I'm constantly moving chasing the shifting swell angle , troughs & tacking to keep the wing loaded The paddle guys generally hold a much straighter line than this just shows how much you need to move around on the wing to stay in control and stay powered . The swell was pretty small this day so not to many free rides on the bumps .

Chasing bumps and sitting in the trough in the right spot is real a art form and takes many hours in the ocean to develop. Those guys you are talking about in the videos are actually moving a lot side to side just looks like they are going straight just standing there but also constantly adjusting the foil trim and mast height. Down wind Sup foil paddling is a great way to learn these skills but hard to learn in light conditions. It doesn't sound like you have much ocean time so be careful out there , you will have some high velocity falls . So be prepared for those big crashes they can knock the sense out of you. Don't go too far from shore first up and don't rely for a friend to help because on wing downwinding you become seperated by 100's of metres in just a few minutes .

The 200 will suit for now but we are all moving to higher aspect wings , so much more control & speed without the constant breaching . You also want a longer stiffer mast .




paul.j
QLD, 2964 posts
20 Mar 2020 8:27AM
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A vid I did quite a while ago now, it is 8mins but can give a few on water tips. Might shoot a updated vid once I get my new wings dialed.

Hdip
61 posts
20 Mar 2020 6:41AM
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How is that scoop deck like on the One boards? I talked to a guy who shaped his own board and wasn't to thrilled on the scoop deck for in the surf. On white water takeoff's the water is on the board and makes the board heavier on the initial drop was his opinion.

paul.j
QLD, 2964 posts
20 Mar 2020 9:20AM
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Hdip said..
How is that scoop deck like on the One boards? I talked to a guy who shaped his own board and wasn't to thrilled on the scoop deck for in the surf. On white water takeoff's the water is on the board and makes the board heavier on the initial drop was his opinion.



Yeah if you take of in the white wash you can get some water on the board but i find by the time i have done my first turn its all gone. Unless you have a dome in the deck it will always carry water and even a flatdeck board holds water so all pretty much for much.
The benefit of the recess far out weighs the bit of water you get from time to time.

Dommo49
21 posts
20 Mar 2020 1:02PM
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Hdip said..
How much for a downwind sup board? Malibu had one of those good wind days yesterday that had me searching for an outside boil to chip in off of with my prone board.
you know the kind. www.instagram.com/p/BuAnxAfjuk2/?igshid=1ngwxcyep4e2o
I didn't find anything that looked doable though. Ended up just working.

here is a good video where he talks you through what to look for downwind.


Nice one Hdip - thanks for sharing this video, it's a shame that his gopro isn't pointing to show the swell in front more often rather than down at the nose of his board the whole time, but the commentary and advise is excellent and the few glimpses that there are of the swell in front are super helpful.

So, lets see if I'm getting this right...
"connecting the bumps" is something that I've heard a lot and have always thought "how?", but I think I'm beginning to get it. At one point Alex says to stay IN the troughs, and to link the troughs together "connecting the dots" as he says. I'm guessing that means I should always head for the troughs, but not go too far into them as that's when you run too far forward and are no longer in the power of the swell. He also said to turn (sometimes backwards) to link troughs - so is that the key? Should I be trying to move from trough to trough - sometimes pumping/paddling (or sheeting on with the wind wing) to catch up with one and sometimes turning back to get one if I can't overtake the one in front?

In the few downwind sessions I've done (with a wind wing) I've been looking out for those troughs and have been trying to ride 'down the line' of each long stretch of swell, (is this what people mean when they say to "stay high on the swell") but the swell quickly disappears, so it's after this stage where I'm not sure where to go or what to do next to maintain power/speed to keep flying as quite often there isn't anything around me that looks rideable. What should I do in this situation to keep flying? What should I look out for? Do I turn, pump, pray?????

Dommo49
21 posts
20 Mar 2020 1:38PM
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Piros said..
Hi Dom re the downwind on the wing in the ocean in lighter winds you constantly need to bear off to the side and re load the wing when you loose power . Few other tricks is kept it lofted above your head and pump with your legs to climb over the bump in front , you combine this with pumping your arms as well . This will actually pull you over the trough in front but can get exhausting in light wind , so as I said above bear off or tack away across the swell or drop into the trough behind to build speed then straighten up. Going straight downwind is very technical but when get the hang of it you can actually tow the wing behind you one handed . This is an incredible feeling and super addictive.

Check out my track below I had the wind on my back but you can see I'm constantly moving chasing the shifting swell angle , troughs & tacking to keep the wing loaded The paddle guys generally hold a much straighter line than this just shows how much you need to move around on the wing to stay in control and stay powered . The swell was pretty small this day so not to many free rides on the bumps .

Chasing bumps and sitting in the trough in the right spot is real a art form and takes many hours in the ocean to develop. Those guys you are talking about in the videos are actually moving a lot side to side just looks like they are going straight just standing there but also constantly adjusting the foil trim and mast height. Down wind Sup foil paddling is a great way to learn these skills but hard to learn in light conditions. It doesn't sound like you have much ocean time so be careful out there , you will have some high velocity falls . So be prepared for those big crashes they can knock the sense out of you. Don't go too far from shore first up and don't rely for a friend to help because on wing downwinding you become seperated by 100's of metres in just a few minutes .

The 200 will suit for now but we are all moving to higher aspect wings , so much more control & speed without the constant breaching . You also want a longer stiffer mast .





Awesome advise Piros - thanks!!!!!!!! Haha I know what you mean by 'high velocity falls'. Had a few of those already! Not enough front foot pressure to keep the nose down when coming over the top of a bump and BAM - face plant

Everything you have said to do makes perfect sense. I think I've already been doing some of what you said, but because I'm so inexperienced I'm just not very good at it yet so it doesn't feel natural and I'm still making lots of mistakes in not being in the right place at the right time, BUT it's good to hear you say I should reload the wing when I lose power - I've been doing that but thought it was a cop out due to not being in the right position on the swell, and that maybe it was preventing me from making progress.

You said "drop into the trough behind to build speed then straighten up" - I think i've done this a couple of times and its the most AWESOME feeling, in fact one of them led to a high velocity fall, haha!!!!!! Am i right in thinking you mean to carve left (or right) towards a trough, and then carve again onto it's face to straighten up, ie in a downwind direction - have I got that right? Presumably when you straighten up you've got limited time to stay travelling in a straight line or you'll run into the back of the trough and lose power, so almost immediately after straightening up I'd have to look where to carve move next - to the side or pump forward again. Have I got this right?

One good thing about where I foil is that its not far off the coast. At the moment there's only one other person in Oman who is SUP foiling at this level so when we get better maybe we'll venture further out, but not without a boat for support - safety first! I have actually ordered the GL range of GoFoils to replace my Maliko's and IWA, but due to the COVID situaltion I can't get back to the UK to pick it up. Frustration!!!!

Obviously I will need to practice MUCH more to become more efficient, but now I've got a much better idea of what to do it should help - Cheers!!!!!!

Dommo49
21 posts
20 Mar 2020 2:04PM
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paul.j said..
A vid I did quite a while ago now, it is 8mins but can give a few on water tips. Might shoot a updated vid once I get my new wings dialed.



paul.j this video is awesome!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously, the angle you get while holding the gopro out makes it so clear what the ocean state is doing and what you are dong to stay in the power. At one point I'm thinking - "there's a nice bump coming to his left", and immediately you turn to the left to connect onto it. Sweet!!!!!! So i'm getting the idea that you adjust the angle you're heading according to whatever the ocean is giving you - it could be 45 degrees, it could be more or less, whatever is needed to stay riding high on the bumps. But when dropping down into the troughs do you not have to carve left or right to stay moving? If you don't, surely you'll run into the back of the next bump and lose speed?

This video along with what the others have said in their posts is exactly what I needed to put me in the right direction. Forecast says it'll be stormy for the next couple of days here so with a bit of luck I'll be able to put all this theory into practice! Thanks again, and oh yeah - defo shoot an updated vid as soon as you can

PeterP
651 posts
20 Mar 2020 3:08PM
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I'm by no means a dwd foiling expert, despite many attempts. But I'm getting longer flights and placement on the swell, and anticipating when it will fade out, and figuring out what to do then, has taken a lot of time on the water - and I still run into blind alleys. At my age, and weight, the blind alleys are the biggest challenge, as I don't have the skill and fitness to maintain flight merely by pumping and paddling (not for very long anyways) - I have to have some ocean energy to stay in flight.

For a long time I also battled to feel the energy of the bumps, as it's so subtle on a foil. This has also improved to a point where I can now (to a degree) anticipate where and when the energy will kick in - this is almost impossible to explain and convey. Only TOW works here (Time On Water)

What I also found on the last couple of dwds, is the importance of ride height on the foil. The higher you fly, the less drag, and the faster and further you will fly, and I now use this to get myself to the next bit of energy. Conversely, If you are on top of a big drop I lower my ride-height to reduce and control the speed.

Using ride height as a throttle has extended my flights considerably.

Putting all the bit together just takes time.

Dommo49
21 posts
20 Mar 2020 4:08PM
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PeterP said..
I'm by no means a dwd foiling expert, despite many attempts. But I'm getting longer flights and placement on the swell, and anticipating when it will fade out, and figuring out what to do then, has taken a lot of time on the water - and I still run into blind alleys. At my age, and weight, the blind alleys are the biggest challenge, as I don't have the skill and fitness to maintain flight merely by pumping and paddling (not for very long anyways) - I have to have some ocean energy to stay in flight.

For a long time I also battled to feel the energy of the bumps, as it's so subtle on a foil. This has also improved to a point where I can now (to a degree) anticipate where and when the energy will kick in - this is almost impossible to explain and convey. Only TOW works here (Time On Water)

What I also found on the last couple of dwds, is the importance of ride height on the foil. The higher you fly, the less drag, and the faster and further you will fly, and I now use this to get myself to the next bit of energy. Conversely, If you are on top of a big drop I lower my ride-height to reduce and control the speed.

Using ride height as a throttle has extended my flights considerably.

Putting all the bit together just takes time.


Thanks for sharing your experiences - really useful I've been doing some flat water pumping (dock starts) to try to improve my technique and fitness and completely agree that the foil height makes a huge difference.
Cheers!

Piros
QLD, 5837 posts
21 Mar 2020 4:04AM
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Dom said :- Am i right in thinking you mean to carve left (or right) towards a trough, and then carve again onto it's face to straighten up, ie in a downwind direction - have I got that right? Presumably when you straighten up you've got limited time to stay travelling in a straight line or you'll run into the back of the trough and lose power, so almost immediately after straightening up I'd have to look where to carve move next - to the side or pump forward again. Have I got this right?

Yes that's exactly right , keep your momentum by joining the dots.

Dommo49
21 posts
21 Mar 2020 11:40AM
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Piros said..
Dom said :- Am i right in thinking you mean to carve left (or right) towards a trough, and then carve again onto it's face to straighten up, ie in a downwind direction - have I got that right? Presumably when you straighten up you've got limited time to stay travelling in a straight line or you'll run into the back of the trough and lose power, so almost immediately after straightening up I'd have to look where to carve move next - to the side or pump forward again. Have I got this right?

Yes that's exactly right , keep your momentum by joining the dots.


Cheers Piros - thanks for confirming

Piros
QLD, 5837 posts
21 Mar 2020 11:40PM
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Hey Dom this is one of my wing DW videos showing wing above the head heading Downwind .

Dommo49
21 posts
22 Mar 2020 5:50PM
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Piros said..
Hey Dom this is one of my wing DW videos showing wing above the head heading Downwind .



Thanks Piros. That really helps



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