Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

E Foils for 2021

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Created by warwickl 26 days ago, 4 Nov 2020
warwickl
NSW, 1568 posts
4 Nov 2020 6:21PM
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I am thinking this maybe for me next year.
Any advice or predictions for 2021 on best option for mid level ie board about 110l size for flat water and small swell.

Yuppy
VIC, 619 posts
4 Nov 2020 9:25PM
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I have the Flite pro.
loads of fun for no wind days.

Hdip
124 posts
4 Nov 2020 11:18PM
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Lift has a winter sale. $2k off in the US at least.

Waydoo seems decent for a budget option. The board is made out of foam. Some kickstarter people are having issues with the masts or fuse's. I personally know of 2 guys who have perfectly good kits though.

gorgesailor
334 posts
5 Nov 2020 2:52AM
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Takuma are starting to get some traction in the US now...

bjhjames
QLD, 126 posts
6 Nov 2020 7:43PM
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Hdip said..
Lift has a winter sale. $2k off in the US at least.

Waydoo seems decent for a budget option. The board is made out of foam. Some kickstarter people are having issues with the masts or fuse's. I personally know of 2 guys who have perfectly good kits though.


Hi there, Could you please advise where you saw the info on the "Lift Winter sale" with $2k off? I can find anything on their websites
Thanks

Hdip
124 posts
6 Nov 2020 11:44PM
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Try messaging @realwatersports on their Instagram. I saw it in their stories maybe. Mackite has it too. I think it was an email from lift. Never widely publicized.

bjhjames
QLD, 126 posts
7 Nov 2020 6:45AM
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Hdip said..
Try messaging @realwatersports on their Instagram. I saw it in their stories maybe. Mackite has it too. I think it was an email from lift. Never widely publicized.


Cheers thanks

Piros
QLD, 6032 posts
7 Nov 2020 8:31AM
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Yes you can buy Lift direct on the Gold Coast $15,999 Aus they are in stock

eppo
WA, 7606 posts
10 Nov 2020 9:30AM
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What are they really like in the waves ? Compared to say traditional prone surfing ?

Piros
QLD, 6032 posts
10 Nov 2020 12:42PM
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Small tiny waves are fun , you can ride much bigger stuff but it's pretty hard and really intimidating. Once you start free foiling you are dealing with a 30+kg rig not a 6kg like your prone so it's nothing like prone surfing. No tight cutbacks of anything like that just more like shooting the curl with long sweeping top and bottom turns. Takes alot of balls to stay up high in the pocket , that's why you see most riders just out in front on the flatter part of the wave and generally straighten out if it walls up too much. Most of the time these guys are actually riding in front of the wave not on it..... but still feels like you are surfing it.

tightlines
WA, 3322 posts
10 Nov 2020 10:50AM
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eppo said..
What are they really like in the waves ? Compared to say traditional prone surfing ?



Traditional prone surfing or traditional prone foil surfing ?

Either way, at a guess I would say ****.

What I love about foiling is the almost zero drag, glide and speed.
Surely these must be like throwing an anchor out.

Each to their own but efoils don't interest me at all.

Yeah I know I haven't tried them, I'm not likely to either.

eppo
WA, 7606 posts
10 Nov 2020 11:07AM
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Prone foil surfing. I'm really interested although don't have the coin to actually get one. So many calm mornings waiting for the wind to come in with outer reef breaks just wanting to be ridden. But I get your point about weight. Hopefully I will get to try one in the future.
lot of crew I know are interested. But they are not interested in the price and have the same doubts like you do.

exiled
320 posts
10 Nov 2020 3:33PM
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I wasn't interested until they started talking about being able to tow another foiler in on a wave on one of the progression project podcasts.

Hdip
124 posts
10 Nov 2020 3:48PM
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I've never ridden one. Just see them around Malibu a lot. There's a couple guys who make them look fun. And a bunch of guys who make it look boring.
the good guys all take the prop guard off. Apparently that frees it up a bunch. It's still s turns on unbroken swell lines though.
it's supposed to be like dirt bike riding using the torque of the prop to get you through turns. Even with the folding prop you still have to stay on the gas it seems.
efoil builders has turned into foil.zone now. Check that site out if you're a diy type with a 3D printer. All kinds of info now. including cut open lift battery packs.

eppo
WA, 7606 posts
10 Nov 2020 4:34PM
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So it's not a matter of getting onto a wave then killing the power and foiling then ???

tightlines
WA, 3322 posts
10 Nov 2020 8:51PM
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exiled said..
I wasn't interested until they started talking about being able to tow another foiler in on a wave on one of the progression project podcasts.


You can do that easier for longer and cheaper with a JetSki

No I am not a fan of jet skis either but for foil tow ins I think they open up the ocean to a whole world of possibilities.

Hell I might have to get one, or find a mate with one.

Greenroom
WA, 7591 posts
10 Nov 2020 9:23PM
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tightlines said..

exiled said..
I wasn't interested until they started talking about being able to tow another foiler in on a wave on one of the progression project podcasts.



You can do that easier for longer and cheaper with a JetSki

No I am not a fan of jet skis either but for foil tow ins I think they open up the ocean to a whole world of possibilities.

Hell I might have to get one, or find a mate with one.


Jet ski over efoil any day. So much more you can do with a ski.

Hdip
124 posts
10 Nov 2020 11:11PM
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eppo said..
So it's not a matter of getting onto a wave then killing the power and foiling then ???


I guess the folding prop ones you can completely kill the power sometimes. But going from a bunch of powered thrust where your leaning forward to control it. Then you kill the power but still have that big torpedo shaped thing on your mast causing a bunch of drag, that's a huge change in body position so it's hard.
and like they said above. The weight difference. Batteries are very heavy apparently.

jondrums
36 posts
11 Nov 2020 2:15AM
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I've mentioned it before, but I would absolutely love to have a small and light battery powered thrust assist for take-off only, then its out of the water and not producing drag. Kind of like the boost fin, which I'm still waiting to see. Getting into big fast moving unbreaking swell on a small board would be amazing and worth an extra 5kg. Especially if that extra 5kg is centered over the foil mast.Some of the new battery powered tools out there use pretty small and light batteries and brushless motors that can put out 1kW+ bursts and 15 minutes run times. So I know it can be done. But there are a lot of details to work out.

Hdip
124 posts
11 Nov 2020 3:04AM
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Check out this jondrums.


Taken from this thread.

foil.zone/t/michions-build/2625/114

Piros
QLD, 6032 posts
11 Nov 2020 8:05AM
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That looks very cool but I'd definitely have a prop guard on that it would pick your leg rope up so easily.

eppo
WA, 7606 posts
11 Nov 2020 9:27AM
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You cannot argue with the jetski cost/benefit positions currently.

But I wouldn't discount the idea, give it time... but yes far too expensive for what's on offer.

Someone on the breeze has reached out and offered for me to have a crack on one, can't wait to see what it is all about.

exiled
320 posts
11 Nov 2020 1:20PM
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Eh, I can walk an e-foil to any beach I want and launch it. A jet ski needs a trailer and a boat ramp and room to store it when not in use. Never mind flushing the damn thing after every use. I might have the time to use a Jetski once a month, an efoil could get used by me any given day. Your situation might vary of course. I'll still probably never get one, but they have my attention.

warwickl
NSW, 1568 posts
11 Nov 2020 5:16PM
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I would love to demo one- Lake Macquarie NSW??
Lots of Jetskis, had 3 so done that plus agree with above.
Foiling is better, I have not observed any foil Jetskis.

paularity
WA, 12 posts
11 Nov 2020 2:49PM
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Thought I'd chime in since I've owned a Fliteboard for about 6 months and there are a few annoyances that most people are not aware of.

Firstly in WA (and several other states) according to the DoT because they have a motor, eFoils are classed as a 'vessel' meaning you have to legally get a HIN plate attached ($100) register them ($150pa) and display rego stickers

Secondly being that they are vessels, technically they have to abide by speed limits. So for example most of the Perth metro coastline has an 8kn limit from the beach - 200m offshore, which isn't even fast enough to get up and foiling.

Thirdly, although Fliteboard managed to get some concessions on boat safety equipment that align with windsurfers/kiters, the DoT overlooked the practical use case, and nearly all of the local councils (Cambridge/Cottesloe/Stirling) have local laws that say something along the lines of "a 'boat' can only be launched from a designated boat ramp" which translates to you not being allowed to carry this 25kg board down to any beach, walk into the water and have a session

Regardless of the fact that my local in Scarborough regularly has kite foilers, prone foilers in the line up, and kitesurfers downwinding way faster than 8kn (occasionally through flagged beaches), I've had meetings and discussions with the council and the beach services manager and they will not issue special use permits

Plus because this thing is an attention magnet that on a flat, clear day can be seen from kilometres away it's pretty hard to be discrete about using it! Especially since I am now a known entity hahaha!

Outside of lobbying the DoT marine safety manager, who is probably not in a hurry to do much since there is only a handful of people with them in the entire of WA, that is currently where the nanny state stands on eFoils

Rant over

On the positive side, removing the prop duct gives you an increase of ~20% ride time/range and also speed (~50kph top) and most importantly the board handles much better. I'm 75kg on the 70L Pro board with the ~900sqcm Flyer wing I can solidly ride for about 65 minutes with 10% battery remaining for a total range of 25km. The board has tilt detection which effectively cuts the prop immediately when the mast hit's a certain angle which nobody could physically still be on the board and in theory before you've even hit the water

I've sessioned smaller waves all over the state this Winter and like Piros and others have mentioned the body positioning and the weight make for a different feel which is definitely more cumbersome, and you nearly always need to have a bit of power, (unless you're Keahi!) but you can just get off a wave, whip around, pull the trigger to punch back through and line up the next one.

I've taken it out in +20kn seabreeze open ocean wind chop just for **s and giggles and even though you could be on a kite or wing it was still surprisingly easy and fun. And on the flip side exploring places I wouldn't even consider riding when it is glassy is a pretty cool experience too. And yes, you can tow other foils

Are they are hell expensive? Most definitely! But the build quality is great, their customer service is outstanding and not many brands stick by a 2 year warranty. I've accidentally hit turtles, reef and rocks, banged it manhandling it to and fro boats and dropped it, so I'm pretty confident in the durability. Besides the stupid government limitations, the entire reason I bought it was to maximise my time on the water regardless of the conditions and I ride mine almost every, so I don't regret it.

If you are Perth-based and want to tee up a ride to see for yourself, shoot me a PM.

eppo
WA, 7606 posts
11 Nov 2020 9:37PM
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Great info dude cheers. Nanny state alright.

Hdip
124 posts
12 Nov 2020 1:25AM
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There's debate about that license and registration thing over here in Los Angeles, CA, USA too. If you're in a Marina, the harbor patrol will stop you. I guess at that point it's up to the discretion of the officer as to whether or not you get a warning or something more severe. Half the guys have stickers on their board, half don't it seems.

The speed limit thing is interesting, because over here it seems like that's due to wake. Well once you're on foil there is no wake, so does the speed limit still apply? Most guys are getting away with being up on foil due to no wake.

Listening to the Lift podcast and reading foil zone where all the guys are building them. Europe has a couple countries that are super strict about them. Canada is a hard no-go. You can't sell them to Canada, but people import them from the states and use them on out of the way lakes still it seems.

Real odd restrictions on e-foils still.

paularity
WA, 12 posts
12 Nov 2020 4:47AM
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Hdip said..
There's debate about that license and registration thing over here in Los Angeles, CA, USA too. If you're in a Marina, the harbor patrol will stop you. I guess at that point it's up to the discretion of the officer as to whether or not you get a warning or something more severe. Half the guys have stickers on their board, half don't it seems.

The speed limit thing is interesting, because over here it seems like that's due to wake. Well once you're on foil there is no wake, so does the speed limit still apply? Most guys are getting away with being up on foil due to no wake.

Listening to the Lift podcast and reading foil zone where all the guys are building them. Europe has a couple countries that are super strict about them. Canada is a hard no-go. You can't sell them to Canada, but people import them from the states and use them on out of the way lakes still it seems.

Real odd restrictions on e-foils still.


Yeah most of the regulations are not logical at all, it really is crazy!

The speed limit applies for PWCs, jet skis and the like because they take quite some distance to come to a complete stop and I guess could easily crash into a person or get smashed in the shore dump if they were writhing 200m of the beach. These foils obviously can cruise by themselves for a couple of metres, but generally don't go too far and the only person who is really in danger is the rider.

There is also a distance requirement that you have to be something like 40-50metres from swimmers too that I forgot to mention, but the way the remote controller works has an arming sequence and a Bluetooth pairing pad on the board, so you just can't hold the trigger and send the board flying off on it's own like an eSkate

I was going to just ride anyways, because you are not legally required to give your personal information to a council ranger / beach inspector, they have to call a police officer, but since my board has big white letters on it, it's pretty hard to deny it was you when they can just take a photo and look up the rego info haha! I haven't had any run-ins with the water rats, but best not to s*** where you eat

It's not all bad news, I know Fliteboard is waging a battle with Victoria's marine equivalent to try and set a practical precedent and a template that can be rolled out to the other states in Aus, but obviously with the lockdown drama over there they definitely have other things to worry about!

Insurance is also something that is lagging behind. None of the marine underwriters have any products for coverage and don't seem that interested. So I got it added as portable sports and recreational equipment to my home and contents insurance which covers some things, but not all. My main concern was like my car getting broken into and theft etc

Ashh
NSW, 7 posts
12 Nov 2020 5:10PM
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warwickl said..
I would love to demo one- Lake Macquarie NSW??
Lots of Jetskis, had 3 so done that plus agree with above.
Foiling is better, I have not observed any foil Jetskis.


In a few short weeks it will be possible.

warwickl
NSW, 1568 posts
12 Nov 2020 5:43PM
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Ashh said..

warwickl said..
I would love to demo one- Lake Macquarie NSW??
Lots of Jetskis, had 3 so done that plus agree with above.
Foiling is better, I have not observed any foil Jetskis.



In a few short weeks it will be possible.


Look forward to it

warwickl
NSW, 1568 posts
12 Nov 2020 5:43PM
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Select to expand quote
Ashh said..


warwickl said..
I would love to demo one- Lake Macquarie NSW??
Lots of Jetskis, had 3 so done that plus agree with above.
Foiling is better, I have not observed any foil Jetskis.




In a few short weeks it will be possible.



Look forward to it, thanks for the phone call.



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"E Foils for 2021" started by warwickl