Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Foil Sup DW

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Created by frenchfoiler 3 months ago, 10 Aug 2021
frenchfoiler
339 posts
10 Aug 2021 4:17AM
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I wonder what people use for DW on sup (withe the paddle).

I mostly use the Unifoil Hyper 190 and when it is strong wind the Unifoil Hyper 170.

I had a chance to try the Alpine Foil 1100 (1100 cm2, 1000cm wing span) and I was amazed by the glide and the speed.

I haven't tried anything else, I'm interesting about the Lift 170, GoFoil PNL, Armstrong 1125, Takuma 980/1210, Slingshot Phantasm 926 (1233cm2). Any other to consider ?

SupMaui
5 posts
11 Aug 2021 12:30AM
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I've been using the signature albatross 210 for the last two years. Another guy here who rides the same also has a uni 190 the he uses when it's windier. I'm also watching to see someone who uses the 1125 Armstrong for sup foil DW.

TrailRunner
SA, 10 posts
11 Aug 2021 2:34PM
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The GoFoil NL220 is the go to for us in Adelaide. We do a lot of runs in 15-20 knots or less, wind swell only.
Ill be getting either a NL190 or PNL185 next, haven't decided which yet.

Bender
WA, 2197 posts
11 Aug 2021 1:47PM
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I've found the Axis 1300 a wing that has opened up DW foiling( paddle assisted) for me really well

Piros
QLD, 6249 posts
11 Aug 2021 6:39PM
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Yeah I'm about to go back and have another crack at DW paddling. Re the Sig/Uni 190, Takuma 1210 yes they are pretty popular but to start you need more. I'm looking at the Axis Ali mast & 1150 or maybe the 1300 as Bender mentioned. GoFoil also has some great wings (220,240) and killer stiff mast (or Sig /Uni 210 minimum, Takuma 1440 ) 100% stay away from the Army 1125 that would be a death sentence 2400 V2 way better pick . It's super technical to start and regardless of your fitness level you tear up your energy very quickly doing false starts and burn your legs and then start tea bagging ( falling in a lot) a longer purpose-built board also helps as well. ( don't use a ding board) Once you master the starts and start to read the ocean then you can start looking at smaller wings. Learn from my mistakes go bigger to start & HA wings are a bitch to learn on.

When you take the Ding out of the equation you times it by 3 making it harder for starting and staying on the bump. You have to look way forward and peel or pump away early to the trough behind or to the side. No Pumping the ding to drive over the one in front. You need a board you are super stable on which you can stand on in any conditions not foiling , if you can't stand on it comfortably you can't start. Mast and wing flex play a huge part for stability on a Sup . You don't want a soft flex mast or wings again it just makes it hard to balance on the board.

frenchfoiler
339 posts
11 Aug 2021 8:15PM
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Piros said..
Yeah I'm about to go back and have another crack at DW paddling. Re the Sig/Uni 190, Takuma 1210 yes they are pretty popular but to start you need more. I'm looking at the Axis Ali mast & 1150 or maybe the 1300 as Bender mentioned. GoFoil also has some great wings (220,240) and killer stiff mast (or Sig /Uni 210 minimum, Takuma 1440 ) 100% stay away from the Army 1125 that would be a death sentence 2400 V2 way better pick . It's super technical to start and regardless of your fitness level you tear up your energy very quickly doing false starts and burn your legs and then start tea bagging ( falling in a lot) a longer purpose-built board also helps as well. ( don't use a ding board) Once you master the starts and start to read the ocean then you can start looking at smaller wings. Learn from my mistakes go bigger to start & HA wings are a bitch to learn on.

When you take the Ding out of the equation you times it by 3 making it harder for starting and staying on the bump. You have to look way forward and peel or pump away early to the trough behind or to the side. No Pumping the ding to drive over the one in front. You need a board you are super stable on which you can stand on in any conditions not foiling , if you can't stand on it comfortably you can't start. Mast and wing flex play a huge part for stability on a Sup . You don't want a soft flex mast or wings again it just makes it hard to balance on the board.


Actually I already do lots of sup dw, I do 20 km without stopping very often with my Unifoil 190 or the 170.

But now I want to go faster and I wonder what "experienced rider" use as I haven't tried anything execpt Unifoil for the last 12 months.

Piros
QLD, 6249 posts
12 Aug 2021 7:34AM
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Sorry should have read that better . My mate who's a gun at it is very fast on the Axis 980 , others use the Naish wind foil wings & Jacko from One Ocean Sports is very fast on his new FU wings . James Casey & the WA crew are on the new Go Foils , they are the quickest .

murf
SA, 467 posts
12 Aug 2021 3:03PM
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Select to expand quote
Piros said..
Yeah I'm about to go back and have another crack at DW paddling. Re the Sig/Uni 190, Takuma 1210 yes they are pretty popular but to start you need more. I'm looking at the Axis Ali mast & 1150 or maybe the 1300 as Bender mentioned. GoFoil also has some great wings (220,240) and killer stiff mast (or Sig /Uni 210 minimum, Takuma 1440 ) 100% stay away from the Army 1125 that would be a death sentence 2400 V2 way better pick . It's super technical to start and regardless of your fitness level you tear up your energy very quickly doing false starts and burn your legs and then start tea bagging ( falling in a lot) a longer purpose-built board also helps as well. ( don't use a ding board) Once you master the starts and start to read the ocean then you can start looking at smaller wings. Learn from my mistakes go bigger to start & HA wings are a bitch to learn on.

When you take the Ding out of the equation you times it by 3 making it harder for starting and staying on the bump. You have to look way forward and peel or pump away early to the trough behind or to the side. No Pumping the ding to drive over the one in front. You need a board you are super stable on which you can stand on in any conditions not foiling , if you can't stand on it comfortably you can't start. Mast and wing flex play a huge part for stability on a Sup . You don't want a soft flex mast or wings again it just makes it hard to balance on the board.


Haha about time you get back into the painful world of foil downwinding ??

Piros
QLD, 6249 posts
12 Aug 2021 5:30PM
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Yep mate

Scotty Mac
SA, 1988 posts
12 Aug 2021 10:47PM
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Best type of foiling eva bring on spring cant wait!

eppo
WA, 8569 posts
13 Aug 2021 7:02AM
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You guys are sadists. Respect imo.

SupMaui
5 posts
13 Aug 2021 12:51PM
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It's only painful when you learn to do it or when you go down and can't get going again. I'm 62 and it was hard to learn but I stuck with it and now my only complaint is why aren't more people doing it. My knees took beatings from kiteboarding but foiling is so smooth once you get it that I hope to do continue it for another 20yrs. Bring on the wind!

Windgenuity
NSW, 490 posts
Site Sponsor
13 Aug 2021 2:53PM
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This is soo good to see. Bring it on. Please share all your DW missions, setups and best practice. Whilst it is the hardest form of foiling, it is also undoubtedly also the best and most rewarding.

I have gone from DW foiling on foils as small as our 1240 HA, to now pretty much sticking with the 2140HA all the time. A few key notes that have helped me a lot are judging the actual speeds you actually wish to be traveling (average speeds, not peaks).

If it s short run and I am happy to pump a lot, 1240HA or 1400HA are fine, and I will chase swells, but if I am being efficient and really riding the energy, I love the 2140HA or 1800HA.

Another big step I have been taking is shimming the mount plate. This makes a huge difference IMHO for getting up.

Ride a longer board too.

Keen to see some good stories coming,

Ride safe,

JB

PeterP
718 posts
13 Aug 2021 2:43PM
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Has anyone tried SUP dwd with Kujira 1440? I have the 1210 and I'm not be able to get on foil unless it's beyond nuclear conditions.

Keen to see if the SUP foil dwd get's a renaissance - around here it's almost dead as it's just deemed too hard and the wing made it too easy.

frenchfoiler
339 posts
13 Aug 2021 4:39PM
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PeterP said..
Has anyone tried SUP dwd with Kujira 1440? I have the 1210 and I'm not be able to get on foil unless it's beyond nuclear conditions.

Keen to see if the SUP foil dwd get's a renaissance - around here it's almost dead as it's just deemed too hard and the wing made it too easy.


I heard the Kujira 1440 is good for experienced rider in light wind.

Here in France more and more people do it. Some of the best like Titouan Galea use prototype HA 850cm2 wing ! He goes so fast it is amazing. Clement Colmas is olsa super fast.

In otober we will have the first ever SUP Foil DW French Championship, held on a waiting periode (6 days) and if it gets windy everyday, there will be a run everyday. Enough escort boats to launch from where we want, etc...
We are expecting to have at least 40 riders. Should be pretty int?resting !

frenchfoiler
339 posts
13 Aug 2021 4:42PM
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SUP DW Foiling can be frustrating to learn or when the conditions are not right. But you get it and when conditions are good (no need to have 30nd, 15 nd with nice little bumps is enough) it is actually kind of easy.

The board you use is also very important, my current board is 5'7 x 22.5 x 5.6 - 92L. Narrow board is the way to go, you do want a wide sticky board.

James Casey makes good podcast about DW Foing :

PeterP
718 posts
14 Aug 2021 1:33AM
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frenchfoiler said..
SUP DW Foiling can be frustrating to learn or when the conditions are not right. But you get it and when conditions are good (no need to have 30nd, 15 nd with nice little bumps is enough) it is actually kind of easy.

The board you use is also very important, my current board is 5'7 x 22.5 x 5.6 - 92L. Narrow board is the way to go, you do want a wide sticky board.

James Casey makes good podcast about DW Foing :



I'm amazed you can ride such narrow boards - I need absolute stability to be able to get a couple of strong paddle strokes in for take-off. With the board being so narrow and thick doesn't it want to roll?

Good luck with downwind races! Sounds amazing, please give full report incl bodyweights and ages :)

gorgesailor
422 posts
14 Aug 2021 2:29AM
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Select to expand quote
PeterP said..
Has anyone tried SUP dwd with Kujira 1440? I have the 1210 and I'm not be able to get on foil unless it's beyond nuclear conditions.

Keen to see if the SUP foil dwd get's a renaissance - around here it's almost dead as it's just deemed too hard and the wing made it too easy.


In the Gorge USA, quite a few riders using 1210/1440 Kujira's downwind - some even using the 980 on windy days. According to our local DW hotshots the 1440 is a weapon downwind. He does a popular 8mile run in 45 minutes...

PeterP
718 posts
14 Aug 2021 3:00AM
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Select to expand quote
gorgesailor said..

PeterP said..
Has anyone tried SUP dwd with Kujira 1440? I have the 1210 and I'm not be able to get on foil unless it's beyond nuclear conditions.

Keen to see if the SUP foil dwd get's a renaissance - around here it's almost dead as it's just deemed too hard and the wing made it too easy.



In the Gorge USA, quite a few riders using 1210/1440 Kujira's downwind - some even using the 980 on windy days. According to our local DW hotshots the 1440 is a weapon downwind. He does a popular 8mile run in 45 minutes...


How much does the Hottie weigh and how old? And are we talking paddle downwind - or wing dwd?

frenchfoiler
339 posts
14 Aug 2021 4:52AM
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Select to expand quote
PeterP said..

frenchfoiler said..
SUP DW Foiling can be frustrating to learn or when the conditions are not right. But you get it and when conditions are good (no need to have 30nd, 15 nd with nice little bumps is enough) it is actually kind of easy.

The board you use is also very important, my current board is 5'7 x 22.5 x 5.6 - 92L. Narrow board is the way to go, you do want a wide sticky board.

James Casey makes good podcast about DW Foing :




I'm amazed you can ride such narrow boards - I need absolute stability to be able to get a couple of strong paddle strokes in for take-off. With the board being so narrow and thick doesn't it want to roll?

Good luck with downwind races! Sounds amazing, please give full report incl bodyweights and ages :)



Stability is important to be able to paddle strong, but you can go narrow and stable with a good design (no bevel, deep double concave, volume at the nose). But remember once you get good you only need to get up once.

paul.j
QLD, 3154 posts
14 Aug 2021 8:34AM
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Boards foresure are making it easier and easier along with better foils. We have just released a new range of boards made for downwind as their main purpose and they do make it way easier again. www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/the-egg I ride the 5'10 x 23 x 92L and for me this is nice and easy even in the rough water, my business partner who is 90kg rides the 6'1 x 25 x 110L and I have never seen him get up so easy in the Downwinding with the paddle. Just because they are narrow does not mean they are impossible to ride and in fact, i find this as easy as my old 5'8 x 26 x 90L i used to ride.

On the foil side, our FU foils will be released well pretty much anytime now as the first shipment is nearly on its way to me and i will hopefully have some info on the website in the next week.
It's been crazy with the development side but a big part has been the downwind side as we feel this is the pinnacle in some ways to foiling. We just finished a bigger race wing which i have been using for the last month and it's crazy the amount of fun it brings back to really very average conditions and it's this type of wing which i feel will really help bring more fun into it for people rather than just going for flat out speed like we try for on the smaller race wings. Having a bigger wing that is still fast and very efficient is where it's at for most people and while the early big wings might have had lift they were still really hard to keep the speed up and cutting angles was also really tough.

Our goal is still to make it as easy as possible because I want more people to enjoy just how much fun this is.

For downwinding the right gear is a huge part of the key!!!

pohaku
NSW, 557 posts
14 Aug 2021 6:37PM
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Check out Dave Kalama's latest downwind shapes. Definitely "out there" and built for initial momentum/glide. Originally called the prone/ winging boards but have been getting more interest to
down wind them.

coming to Oz:
6'1"x 23", @ 105L
6'5"x 23.5", @ 116L

whats everyone else currently using to SUP DW & what do you weigh?




















Hank1
NSW, 14 posts
14 Aug 2021 6:38PM
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Boards look great Paul!!How much do you weigh?

pohaku
NSW, 557 posts
14 Aug 2021 6:42PM
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paul.j
QLD, 3154 posts
14 Aug 2021 8:03PM
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Hank1 said..
Boards look great Paul!!How much do you weigh?


I am 77kg.

Scotty Mac
SA, 1988 posts
14 Aug 2021 8:10PM
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Don't let weight and age wear you down! I am 50 years old and a healthy 92kg (well pie healthy!) and with a bit of consistent effort and work at it I am riding a 510 x 27.5 at 106 litres with a NL220 or 190 and doing our local run (7.5km) mostly with one start. Younger, lighter and fitter is definitely an advantage but old fat guys can downwind foil so persist as it's worth the effort!

Bender
WA, 2197 posts
14 Aug 2021 6:48PM
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Select to expand quote

pohaku said..

Check out Dave Kalama's latest downwind shapes. Definitely "out there" and built for initial momentum/glide. Originally called the prone/ winging boards but have been getting more interest to
down wind them.

coming to Oz:
6'1"x 23", @ 105L
6'5"x 23.5", @ 116L

whats everyone else currently using to SUP DW & what do you weigh?





















Looks like DK copied my WA shaped FTY
6"3 x 28. This thing lifts onto foil super early/easy.










pohaku
NSW, 557 posts
14 Aug 2021 8:54PM
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Select to expand quote
that tbing looks wicked


Select to expand quote

Bender said..



pohaku said..

Check out Dave Kalama's latest downwind shapes. Definitely "out there" and built for initial momentum/glide. Originally called the prone/ winging boards but have been getting more interest to
down wind them.

coming to Oz:
6'1"x 23", @ 105L
6'5"x 23.5", @ 116L

whats everyone else currently using to SUP DW & what do you weigh?





















Looks like DK copied my WA shaped FTY
6"3 x 28. This thing lifts onto foil super early/easy.









Hdip
240 posts
14 Aug 2021 11:09PM
Thumbs Up

Probably copied kdmaui's boards.
www.instagram.com/p/CEnvsBMjkiO/?utm_medium=copy_link

Tim W
NSW, 9 posts
15 Aug 2021 8:35AM
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Select to expand quote
paul.j said..
Boards foresure are making it easier and easier along with better foils. We have just released a new range of boards made for downwind as their main purpose and they do make it way easier again. www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/the-egg I ride the 5'10 x 23 x 92L and for me this is nice and easy even in the rough water, my business partner who is 90kg rides the 6'1 x 25 x 110L and I have never seen him get up so easy in the Downwinding with the paddle. Just because they are narrow does not mean they are impossible to ride and in fact, i find this as easy as my old 5'8 x 26 x 90L i used to ride.

On the foil side, our FU foils will be released well pretty much anytime now as the first shipment is nearly on its way to me and i will hopefully have some info on the website in the next week.
It's been crazy with the development side but a big part has been the downwind side as we feel this is the pinnacle in some ways to foiling. We just finished a bigger race wing which i have been using for the last month and it's crazy the amount of fun it brings back to really very average conditions and it's this type of wing which i feel will really help bring more fun into it for people rather than just going for flat out speed like we try for on the smaller race wings. Having a bigger wing that is still fast and very efficient is where it's at for most people and while the early big wings might have had lift they were still really hard to keep the speed up and cutting angles was also really tough.

Our goal is still to make it as easy as possible because I want more people to enjoy just how much fun this is.

For downwinding the right gear is a huge part of the key!!!



They look very nice, looks like the trend is going thicker also to give some extra volume to make up for going narrower?? What's the thickness of the 5'10? Do you think you lose any stability from doing this?

paul.j
QLD, 3154 posts
15 Aug 2021 10:46AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Tim W said..

paul.j said..
Boards foresure are making it easier and easier along with better foils. We have just released a new range of boards made for downwind as their main purpose and they do make it way easier again. www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/the-egg I ride the 5'10 x 23 x 92L and for me this is nice and easy even in the rough water, my business partner who is 90kg rides the 6'1 x 25 x 110L and I have never seen him get up so easy in the Downwinding with the paddle. Just because they are narrow does not mean they are impossible to ride and in fact, i find this as easy as my old 5'8 x 26 x 90L i used to ride.

On the foil side, our FU foils will be released well pretty much anytime now as the first shipment is nearly on its way to me and i will hopefully have some info on the website in the next week.
It's been crazy with the development side but a big part has been the downwind side as we feel this is the pinnacle in some ways to foiling. We just finished a bigger race wing which i have been using for the last month and it's crazy the amount of fun it brings back to really very average conditions and it's this type of wing which i feel will really help bring more fun into it for people rather than just going for flat out speed like we try for on the smaller race wings. Having a bigger wing that is still fast and very efficient is where it's at for most people and while the early big wings might have had lift they were still really hard to keep the speed up and cutting angles was also really tough.

Our goal is still to make it as easy as possible because I want more people to enjoy just how much fun this is.

For downwinding the right gear is a huge part of the key!!!




They look very nice, looks like the trend is going thicker also to give some extra volume to make up for going narrower?? What's the thickness of the 5'10? Do you think you lose any stability from doing this?


The 5'10 is 4.9 thick. The stability I guess is just different to our other boards, I find it really stable but as I mentioned in the Vid it's probably not a style of board someone would buy if they have never SUP'ed before (6'1 maybe ok for lighter rider as a first board). These are for people who have been SUP foiling or can SUP already and have the paddling side down and they want that next progression.

The foil also adds so much stability on the narrow boards and once you get used to that I think many will be surprised at what they can do and ride.



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"Foil Sup DW" started by frenchfoiler