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From SUP Foil to Proner

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Created by Holoholo 30 days ago, 18 Sep 2019
Holoholo
27 posts
18 Sep 2019 1:52AM
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Ok so.............. after 6 mos foiling on a SUP- loving every minute, I've taken the leap and just bought a prone board to add to the arsenal of joy. I'm 6'3" 90Ks. Picked up a 5'4"x 22" 50ml board. Hope it works. I assume I am in for a good full serving of humble pie. So..... any tips to get started???? A GoFoil IWA in waist to chest high gonna work? Short or long mast? Start with the mast all the way back? Any nuggets you've got much appreciated before the beating ensues.

exiled
252 posts
18 Sep 2019 3:54AM
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Best of luck to you. I bought a prone foilboard but its just been collecting dust because I can't bring myself to jump back to the beginning of the learning curve again and flounder around rather than go out and fly.

Piros
QLD, 5570 posts
18 Sep 2019 6:49AM
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Yes few hard weeks ahead. First tip break up the take off , push up on your arms and hold then front then back foot . Practice at home on the grass with your board with no foil on . Don't try a pop straight to your feet , that comes much later. The trick is to keep the foil down as you get to your feet , don't let it foil laying down . Also move your mast all the way back for first couple of sessions and creep it forward as you get better.

Pick your days small crumbling waves and take off straight with the white water. Once to your feet you'll find it will feel strange without a paddle but it's actually easier to ride the smaller board. You'll go heaps faster and 10 times easier to pump. Things come together pretty quick once you get the take off nailed. Your paddle fitness takes a few weeks but that happens pretty fast as well. Once you get the feel for this you'll only use your Sup for DW or WingDing.

dtm
NSW, 1596 posts
18 Sep 2019 8:28AM
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Good stuff Piros he's spot on !!!
im also keen to hear all others advice, great topic!

I am in the same board as you holoholo and have short boarded my whole life I have made the mistake of jumping to my feet quickly like normal and have the issues with as I do this the foil is rising underneath me !! It's hard as hell I kept eating it ,,
prone seems way harder than sup , at the moment but I also think I went too small too quickly on board size
, with practice it will happen just don't think you're going to kill it straight up cause you can sup foil , be prepared to learn again

Scotty Mac
SA, 1904 posts
18 Sep 2019 9:03AM
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I find the shorter mast (60 cm) easier on the prone too. i think its because it makes the steup a little looser and I can correct my mistakes much easier. On the long mast i seem to sway off the centre and cant recover it.

toppleover
QLD, 1559 posts
18 Sep 2019 9:49AM
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Pick your conditions, you really want the smallest of waves to learn to prone.
It's easier to catch the whitewater, rather than trying to drop into an unbroken wave.

Goodluck mate

Holoholo
27 posts
18 Sep 2019 12:52PM
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I picked up the board today and of course... prior to seeing any of the above responses- went straight for the water to give it a go. I did none of the above.

1. It was chest to head high, with a rapidly draining tide. Not ideal for my first go but c'mon, WTF am I gonna do, go home with dry hair a brand new board?
2. I paddled into the wave faces rather than whitewater.
3. I did a standard shortboard pop-up.
4. I put the mast toward the back- but not all the way back.
5. I got launched

How'd it go exactly? Uhhh... not a TOTAL catastrophe, but wish I'd seen the above input first..... after day one- I can say all spot on advice.

I did find myself wanting something closer to a Kai wing w/ the conditions rather than my Iwa which felt too much. I'll be putting the mast back the last 1/2"next go and damn... dare I say- hope for smaller surf?
Next- my straight one step popup was quick enough to beat coming up on foil but... was like a cruel game of roulette as far as foot position goes. I found that most of the time I landed too far back- felt super sketchy and aborted- bailed off the back. By luck, I managed to hit the right footing, centered, forward maybe 3 times, raced out of control for about 30 feet with claws dug in before breaching. I talked to a really solid prone foiler on the beach afterward- told me to paddle/position myself further forward than I normally would a shortboard- like with my chin over the nose of the board forward. Said that it won't pearl due to the foil's lift, will keep weight forward on the foil and land my feet about right at popup. I'll have to try that next time.
I definitely have to get my prone paddling fitness back on point- after about an hour, I found myself regressing, had a rare bout of restraint/good judgement and called it a day.

So that's it. Day 1 down- stoked, ready for more humbling.
Much thanks for the feedback. Please do keep it coming if you've got any advice and I'll pass on my progress and hopefully what I learn along the way.

Hdip
39 posts
18 Sep 2019 1:44PM
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Prone foiler here. It does help to move forward when paddling, but there are diminishing returns at a point. These boards are short so you can really be up there over the nose. Keep telling yourself to pop up and land further forward than you think you need to. Use your hand on the deck of the board to push it back down and re-position your front foot if necessary. Getting into a backside barrel stance works pretty well actually.

Those are pretty big waves to figure out a pop up on. Keep at it.

toppleover
QLD, 1559 posts
18 Sep 2019 6:15PM
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Holoholo said..
I did find myself wanting something closer to a Kai wing w/ the conditions rather than my Iwa which felt too much. I'll be putting the mast back the last 1/2"next go and damn... dare I say- hope for smaller surf?


I found that a smaller wing was easier to learn on as it had less lift.

Piros
QLD, 5570 posts
18 Sep 2019 6:27PM
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Solid effort Holoho and yes we all get launched . Smaller wing for sure will help as well. Just keep grinding away it will come and yes when you are getting really tired just stop. Better to do multiple short sessions than a few long ones.

Holoholo
27 posts
19 Sep 2019 10:23AM
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Day 2. Had a short 1 hr window for water time and jumped on it.
Results: Not great- but slightly better. I'll take that.
Simply put- I just felt a little less awkward/more comfortable on the board, paddling, turning for incoming waves with a foil beneath me. Paddling even felt a little stronger.
Surf was chest high, but slopey/fat with a 5' high tide- that helped. A smaller wing might be ideal for my first week, but the Iwa is all I've got at the moment. (Waiting on some Axis gear)

So.... that 1 hr produced:
First 20 min- paddled about trying to get comfy and missed... shamefully too many waves.

Then I remembered the tip to paddle positioning myself further forward on the foilboard than I would on a regular shortboard. I did that a little bit. It helped. Started dropping in. The first 5 or 6 were same ol' same ol'- I stood up way too far aft, came up on foil too fast and bailed off the back.

Ahhh, that's right, damn numb-nuts- how about you try Piros advice about breaking down the popup? (Cheers Piros) So, next one I paddled hard- once I felt glide, I pushed myself to extended arms and weighted the front of board, paused, then popped up front leg first, rear knee to a backside barrel crouch- stayed there, came up on foil more in control, rode 5 ft, breached. That produced a much less sketchy, controlled pop up, but still not far enough forward.

Next, I tried this: Rather than a standard pop up with my hands on the deck beneath my shoulders, I planted them, I dunno... maybe another 5" forward on the deck.... then simultaneously lunged forward / pulled the board rear-ward beneath me as I straightened my arms- paused, popped up to a crouch and was magically- standing 5" further forward. I came up on foil in much better shape, rode some, bailed. I repeated that several times then realized it was time up- had to jet to an appointment.

So after day 2 / 2hrs total H2O time transitioning to prone foil board- even though it likely didn't look much less kooky from the beach, I'm a little more hopeful. Just need heaps of reps. and time on foil so that feels as solid as it does on my 6'-0" SUP... like I'm riding the foil rather than it riding me.

Hoping to have enough time tomorrow to get some prone time. Going to make it a point to take a minute before I paddle out to be a bit more mindful in my approach- review what I've learned in. And maybe end with some time on my SUP for legit air time with pumping and turns to keep some of that stoke... and feed my confidence a little. ~mahalo~

punter888
1 posts
19 Sep 2019 12:29PM
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I thought I'd use the occasion of my first post here to establish myself as a total kook. On the daft scale of 1-10, with 1 being clever and 10 being totally daft........is there value in using a 6ft SUP foil board as a learning tool for prone foil surfing, a bit in the same way that a newbie surfer starts on a longboard? ? Rider background......above average kite and wake foiler, learning to SUP foil, learning to Slingwing foil. No surfing background, and nothing suitable for prone foil surfing in my current board quiver. Like I said...total kook......

hilly
WA, 4852 posts
19 Sep 2019 3:11PM
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Select to expand quote
punter888 said..
I thought I'd use the occasion of my first post here to establish myself as a total kook. On the daft scale of 1-10, with 1 being clever and 10 being totally daft........is there value in using a 6ft SUP foil board as a learning tool for prone foil surfing, a bit in the same way that a newbie surfer starts on a longboard? ? Rider background......above average kite and wake foiler, learning to SUP foil, learning to Slingwing foil. No surfing background, and nothing suitable for prone foil surfing in my current board quiver. Like I said...total kook......


Just go for it. I prone my foil sup every now and then to get out of the impact zone, 9 times out of 10 it leads to a spectacular dismount.

colas
3422 posts
19 Sep 2019 3:27PM
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punter888 said..
is there value in using a 6ft SUP foil board as a learning tool for prone foil surfing,


I don't prone foil, but from the discussions I had, proning a SUP seems a bad idea because the board is so wide you do not have visual/proprioceptive clues to center properly your feet, so you are going to fall a lot because your feet are badly placed. And dangerous falls, on the foil.

The best way to learn prone surf foiling seems to have a narrow light board, but with some length to have still some paddling speed and stability for taking off in the foam. I have a friend, good surfer but no foil experience, who started with 5'x" foil prone and got disgusted, he then went for a 7'.

juandesooka
282 posts
20 Sep 2019 1:48AM
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Great thread holoholo. I am 4 year kite foiler, 1 year sup foiler, now transitioning to surf (prone) foil. The biggest challenge for me is getting back into shortboarding ... as I transitioned out into longboards and sups years ago, partly due to crowds and partly due to paddle fitness.

Challenge #1: I can still pop up, but not like when I was 20. I have found that foot positioning needs to be perfect, once popped up on foil it's really hard to move feet even a little. So if position is off just an inch or two, it leads to quick wipeout. Sounds like you're on top of this. For me, I have a stomp pad at tail, so that's obvious, but I am going to add a visual target for optimal front foot placement, so that as I am popping up, I know foot placement is right before the foil activates.

Challenge #2: being brutally realistic, I only have an hour of good paddling in me, where I am effective ... and then I am doing the old routine of being 10 feet and 3 seconds short of where I need to be, still out there but not really in the game (which reminds me why I dropped shortboarding; I was stoked watching one of the "how to" videos where the pro shortboarder said that after an hour foiling his arms are pooched, with so much more resistance below the surface). How i intend to resolve this: have a complete set up for both sup foil and surf foil, have them both on the beach, switch off when arms get tired or if conditions change to make one or the other better.

I agree with all the other great advice given. White water take offs are easier to start for sure, but if the waves are bigger / more powerful it can lead to getting up on foil too quick, before you are ready. Smaller wings definitely help, I am on SS Infinity 84 on sup foil most of the time, but only the H2 on surf foil so far. But once you get the feel for it, taking off on the normal surfing section feels really great (but only in non-pitchy waves).

I am a big fan of getting foil practice behind the boat if you have the possibility. Important to treat it as a training session, not just fun in the sun wake boarding: decide on specific things you want to work on, focus on them, even if not as funb. For example, learning to do little bottom turn top turn combos, where the foil engages in the white water, over and over until it's natural and no wipeouts....that directly translates to the surf. Same for pumping, let go of the rope, stay in the pocket and then see how long you can stay with the wave with pumping. And for my next attempt: force myself to the other side, to work on riding backside.

Piros
QLD, 5570 posts
20 Sep 2019 11:47AM
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Just re proning on a short Sup , plenty of my mates have started that way no worries at all. Plus I have a few mates when it's super choppy on their ultra short foil Sups are starting proning with their paddle under the chest then popping to their feet. Great trick for heavy on shore days.

exiled
252 posts
5 Oct 2019 8:16AM
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So I decided October would be the month I learned to prone foil. I haven't paddled into a wave on a prone surfboard since I was a teenager and never a shortboard but I have been SUP surfing for 12 years and SUP foiling about a year. So no pop up skills, but good wave reading ability and I know what to do once I'm up. Two days in and I got my first little 20 ft. flight. So I guess you kinda can learn to foil surf first without knowing how to surf.

Some thoughts as a novice on what has worked:
Big Boards:
At 6'5, 200 lbs, I opted to buy a 6'0 Blue Planet easy foiler. I figured the nice fat 69 liters would give me a fighting chance out there. I'm glad I went big to start, even though I can see myself out growing it soon. I was really surprised I could duck dive it. I have to shorten up my stance as I was pearling on the pop up a bit. Probably overcompensating for fear of getting launched.
Small Waves:
They need to be breaking, but only just barely. It sucks having to paddle that hard to get in, but I figure I need the practice, and avoiding critical waves at the beginning is good for survival.
Slow pop-ups:
Going from catching a wave and getting my feet in the right place has been the hardest part. I've had to immediately bail on the pop up sometimes because my feet weren't in the right place and I could feel myself a second away from jackknifing.
You have to be quick to the cobra position of the pop-up with both hands holding the rails to keep the nose down, but from there, giving myself a second to make sure I get my feet placed right makes the difference. The small mellow waves make this do-able.

Holoholo
27 posts
5 Oct 2019 1:06PM
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I've been super busy- little water time- but got in 2 the last few days. 2 days ago was head-high, pretty bumpy w/wind chop and high tide backwash. Pretty tough conditions but I actually made nice progress because I went with a smaller wing- a GoFoil Kai after having used an Iwa my first few times out. The Kai definitely gave me a few secs to pop up- get settled- then pop it up on foil. Ended up getting multiple long rides- mostly riding straight with long drawn out turns and pumping down the line. Stoked!

Today was perfect learning conditions--- waist to chest A frames, super glassy. Again went out w/ the Kai wing, this time pushed all the way forward in the track and first one popped up and rode it 100 yards. Was kind of undersigned so had to pump quite a bit to keep it up. After about 5 rides in a row and the tide rising a little- I went in and put back on the Iwa and was able to get some nice long glides. Still not comfortable enough to commit to good turns, but- day 4 on a prone felt like a success. I stayed out 2.5 hours and started floundering a bit. Probably should have pulled the plug an hour earlier, but want to get my lay down paddle fitness right and some reps to get my foot position consistent on pop up which is my biggest issue at this point. Still humbling, but I am so can't wait to get out again and get this wired.

Kami
1403 posts
5 Oct 2019 4:16PM
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Select to expand quote
Holoholo said..
I've been super busy- little water time- but got in 2 the last few days. 2 days ago was head-high, pretty bumpy w/wind chop and high tide backwash. Pretty tough conditions but I actually made nice progress because I went with a smaller wing- a GoFoil Kai after having used an Iwa my first few times out. The Kai definitely gave me a few secs to pop up- get settled- then pop it up on foil. Ended up getting multiple long rides- mostly riding straight with long drawn out turns and pumping down the line. Stoked!

Today was perfect learning conditions--- waist to chest A frames, super glassy. Again went out w/ the Kai wing, this time pushed all the way forward in the track and first one popped up and rode it 100 yards. Was kind of undersigned so had to pump quite a bit to keep it up. After about 5 rides in a row and the tide rising a little- I went in and put back on the Iwa and was able to get some nice long glides. Still not comfortable enough to commit to good turns, but- day 4 on a prone felt like a success. I stayed out 2.5 hours and started floundering a bit. Probably should have pulled the plug an hour earlier, but want to get my lay down paddle fitness right and some reps to get my foot position consistent on pop up which is my biggest issue at this point. Still humbling, but I am so can't wait to get out again and get this wired.


My son had a prone go on my Zuma 6'6'' SUP Foil with Large Wing.
It seems easier to stand up when the foil is pulled the furthest back in the rails. This backward position seems to ovoid to pop up too soon.
I hope that can be helpful to you.

Holoholo
27 posts
6 Oct 2019 12:47AM
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Select to expand quote
Kami said..

Holoholo said..
I've been super busy- little water time- but got in 2 the last few days. 2 days ago was head-high, pretty bumpy w/wind chop and high tide backwash. Pretty tough conditions but I actually made nice progress because I went with a smaller wing- a GoFoil Kai after having used an Iwa my first few times out. The Kai definitely gave me a few secs to pop up- get settled- then pop it up on foil. Ended up getting multiple long rides- mostly riding straight with long drawn out turns and pumping down the line. Stoked!

Today was perfect learning conditions--- waist to chest A frames, super glassy. Again went out w/ the Kai wing, this time pushed all the way forward in the track and first one popped up and rode it 100 yards. Was kind of undersigned so had to pump quite a bit to keep it up. After about 5 rides in a row and the tide rising a little- I went in and put back on the Iwa and was able to get some nice long glides. Still not comfortable enough to commit to good turns, but- day 4 on a prone felt like a success. I stayed out 2.5 hours and started floundering a bit. Probably should have pulled the plug an hour earlier, but want to get my lay down paddle fitness right and some reps to get my foot position consistent on pop up which is my biggest issue at this point. Still humbling, but I am so can't wait to get out again and get this wired.



My son had a prone go on my Zuma 6'6'' SUP Foil with Large Wing.
It seems easier to stand up when the foil is pulled the furthest back in the rails. This backward position seems to ovoid to pop up too soon.
I hope that can be helpful to you.


Hey Kami-
Yeah thanks! I started with the mast all the way back and then worked it forward as I got my popup more sorted and needed more lift so as to not need to be pumping constantly to keep it up on foil. I have Allen/hex head screws on my plate, so it's easy to keep a small hex wrench in my pocket so I don't have to paddle in, can make adjustments in the water. It's small enough to fit in the key pocket of a wetsuit as well.
Cheers

Kami
1403 posts
6 Oct 2019 4:01PM
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Select to expand quote
Holoholo said..

Kami said..


Holoholo said..
I've been super busy- little water time- but got in 2 the last few days. 2 days ago was head-high, pretty bumpy w/wind chop and high tide backwash. Pretty tough conditions but I actually made nice progress because I went with a smaller wing- a GoFoil Kai after having used an Iwa my first few times out. The Kai definitely gave me a few secs to pop up- get settled- then pop it up on foil. Ended up getting multiple long rides- mostly riding straight with long drawn out turns and pumping down the line. Stoked!

Today was perfect learning conditions--- waist to chest A frames, super glassy. Again went out w/ the Kai wing, this time pushed all the way forward in the track and first one popped up and rode it 100 yards. Was kind of undersigned so had to pump quite a bit to keep it up. After about 5 rides in a row and the tide rising a little- I went in and put back on the Iwa and was able to get some nice long glides. Still not comfortable enough to commit to good turns, but- day 4 on a prone felt like a success. I stayed out 2.5 hours and started floundering a bit. Probably should have pulled the plug an hour earlier, but want to get my lay down paddle fitness right and some reps to get my foot position consistent on pop up which is my biggest issue at this point. Still humbling, but I am so can't wait to get out again and get this wired.




My son had a prone go on my Zuma 6'6'' SUP Foil with Large Wing.
It seems easier to stand up when the foil is pulled the furthest back in the rails. This backward position seems to ovoid to pop up too soon.
I hope that can be helpful to you.



Hey Kami-
Yeah thanks! I started with the mast all the way back and then worked it forward as I got my popup more sorted and needed more lift so as to not need to be pumping constantly to keep it up on foil. I have Allen/hex head screws on my plate, so it's easy to keep a small hex wrench in my pocket so I don't have to paddle in, can make adjustments in the water. It's small enough to fit in the key pocket of a wetsuit as well.
Cheers


Hi Holoholo
This is a great idea to adjust the foil position when out. My home beach requires to make some adjustments because the tide runs fast!
As well as it's better to unscrew and screw out of reach of the beach sand.

Holoholo
27 posts
10 Oct 2019 1:21AM
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Went to grab my prone for a session and found a salty puddle on the floor... F-me... sprung a leak in mast track on my prone board. Damn.... just getting rolling and now I've got to dry it out for repairs. Headed out figuring I'd get in a foil on the SUP. Perfect little pulse of combo swell brought uber glassy waist to head high foiling perfection. Woulda been a perfect day to keep working on my prone game.

Well... as luck would have it... kind soul on the beach let me take his setup for a go. I've been learning on my Iwa wing, 27"mast (24+ plate adaptor) 5'4" 48L board. This was 4-8... with a Lift 200V2, 30" mast. Holy S**T what a freaking revelation! Soooooo much easier. Plenty of lift, but thing comes up super controlled/smooth on the drop... buttery smooth glide and seems to project forward on the pump compared to my GoFoil Iwa. Think this was my day 5 on prone and by far my best day yet. Poor dude was yelling from the beach, pretty much had to drag my a$$ out of the water to get his gear back so he could go to work.

I already have an interested buyer for my old GoFoil and some Axis gear ordered and on the way: 27" and 30" mast, 750 & 900 wings, short fuse, 400 tail. Hoping it works as well for me as the Lift did. I'm frothing to get the new gear and my board squared away. Funnest day on a foil yet.

exiled
252 posts
Tuesday , 15 Oct 2019 5:24AM
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So I have been getting out 3-4 times a week and I'm at the point where I'm catching whitewash and popping up pretty reliably and riding waves all the way to shore. Couple of questions:
Any tips on paddling out over reef with the foil up? I can do it fine on a sup because they are wide enough, but with the narrower, waxless board I keep slipping off. I often am reduced to paddling one handed to steady the board with the other hand.

Second, I'm 6'5, 91kg riding a 6'0 69L board and the Gong XL wing (just a little smaller than a Maliko 200). As I progress, should I move to a smaller foil or a smaller board first? I'll do both eventually, but I want to stick with switching one piece of gear at a time.

Piros
QLD, 5570 posts
Tuesday , 15 Oct 2019 12:01PM
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That's a hard one re the reef , we are generally on sand here so just walk out with the board on its side. Our boards are so small you couldn't paddle them wrong way up anyway. Re wing size this is a real rough rule of thumb , if you can easily Sup it , it's generally too big for prone so definitely drop one down , plus look at higher aspect as you don't need that slow speed lift.

colas
3422 posts
Tuesday , 15 Oct 2019 3:21PM
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Select to expand quote
exiled said..
waxless board I keep slipping off.


What about just waxing it, then?
Or just add pads or Hexatraction (or similar) grip?

Piros
QLD, 5570 posts
Tuesday , 15 Oct 2019 5:51PM
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He's talking about the bottom of his board Colas

dtm
NSW, 1596 posts
Tuesday , 15 Oct 2019 5:52PM
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Select to expand quote
exiled said..
So I have been getting out 3-4 times a week and I'm at the point where I'm catching whitewash and popping up pretty reliably and riding waves all the way to shore. Couple of questions:
Any tips on paddling out over reef with the foil up? I can do it fine on a sup because they are wide enough, but with the narrower, waxless board I keep slipping off. I often am reduced to paddling one handed to steady the board with the other hand.

Second, I'm 6'5, 91kg riding a 6'0 69L board and the Gong XL wing (just a little smaller than a Maliko 200). As I progress, should I move to a smaller foil or a smaller board first? I'll do both eventually, but I want to stick with switching one piece of gear at a time.


Every wave we surf here has reef I just push it and swim /walk beside the board unti it's deep enough
its not pretty but works

colas
3422 posts
Tuesday , 15 Oct 2019 8:15PM
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Select to expand quote
Piros said..
He's talking about the bottom of his board Colas


Ooops...

This said, since sanding at 400 grit helps both hull glide and traction (I lightly sand my paddle shaft to get better traction), perhaps sanding the hull could be helpful. Even a coarseer grit but along the length could be both efficient hydrodynamically, akin to the ribbed hulls of the America cup, and prevent sliding to the side...

mattllew
50 posts
Tuesday , 15 Oct 2019 9:24PM
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theres a guy on instagram (and we're talking an absolute ripper from hawaii before anyone rolls their eyes ) who puts a couple of those hexa traction hexagons on the bottom of his board. Doesnt seem to slow him down at all.

bigmtn
13 posts
Wednesday , 16 Oct 2019 1:09AM
Thumbs Up

Yeah you can put a couple of those on the bottom. I just put a lil wax on the bottom, real light, just enough so I don't slip around like crazy. Doesnt stop me from catching waves.... But I also often just paddle one handed, hold board with other.



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Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling


"From SUP Foil to Proner" started by Holoholo