Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

How thick is too thick for SUP/Wing boards?

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Created by PeterP A week ago, 4 Apr 2021
PeterP
700 posts
4 Apr 2021 6:52PM
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Gong is making Wing boards up to 6 5/8" to make them as compact as possible - is there a point where boards just get too thick for foil SUP or wing?

DWF
280 posts
4 Apr 2021 10:08PM
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PeterP said..
Gong is making Wing boards up to 6 5/8" to make them as compact as possible - is there a point where boards just get too thick for foil SUP or wing?


Nope. The mast acting like a keel, negates thickness as an issue.

sweats
96 posts
5 Apr 2021 4:41AM
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I have a Gong 4'2 Kube and it is a blast to ride!

RichJam
WA, 64 posts
Sunday , 11 Apr 2021 3:22PM
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Would have to lose some connection with the board at some point I would have thought.
Plus it sounds like surfing a platform shoe!

colas
4138 posts
Sunday , 11 Apr 2021 4:41PM
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RichJam said..
Plus it sounds like surfing a platform shoe!


You realize that by foiling, you are already basically surfing with 30" high heels? ;-)

sweats
96 posts
Monday , 12 Apr 2021 4:31AM
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Feels just like riding a longer mast to me. I am on a 100cm mast as well. No loss of control noted. Love flying high.

Piros
QLD, 6131 posts
Monday , 12 Apr 2021 1:33PM
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Re the board thickness you really notice it on the prone boards , just so much more feel for the foil . That's why we sink the decks . Same goes for the kite foilers they like really thin boards for the same reason. Not such an issue on the wingding boards though , however I can feel a thicker board when I switch with mates. If you want to go ultra short but still want to keep equal body weight or + 10% volume , the rail shape and outline become very important you need to be very smart where you add the extra foam. Big boxy 5"+rails and a chunky square nose just won't cut it.

So to answer your question your board becomes too thick when a shaper can't make the thing work at a set length , so it's better to add a few inches in length then add an extra 1" in thickness for the same volume.

Downwinder
QLD, 1957 posts
Monday , 12 Apr 2021 2:51PM
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Piros said..
Re the board thickness you really notice it on the prone boards , just so much more feel for the foil . That's why we sink the decks . Same goes for the kite foilers they like really thin boards for the same reason. Not such an issue on the wingding boards though , however I can feel a thicker board when I switch with mates. If you want to go ultra short but still want to keep equal body weight or + 10% volume , the rail shape and outline become very important you need to be very smart where you add the extra foam. Big boxy 5"+rails and a chunky square nose just won't cut it.

So to answer your question your board becomes too thick when a shaper can't make the thing work at a set length , so it's better to add a few inches in length then add an extra 1" in thickness for the same volume.

Sorry Piros but I totally disagree with that comment.

My 5ft Prone is 4" thick @ 60 litres, I love it she paddles fast you can duck-dive her & she pumps unreal when I use the 101 AXIS wing
My new 4'10" Prone is 4" thick @ 59 litres

My 6'2'' & 6'0'' & 5'10" SUP foils are like 129 to 130 litres all are 5"inches thick, they all paddle & catch waves very easily & the glide is insane with the 1150 AXIS wing

My weight is 95kg to like 85kg when I'm training

To me volume is my friend

All my high performance surfboards are 2 1/2 inches thick. My 7ft twin-fin is 3" inches thick and goes unreal.



PUMPING BURLEIGH ROCKY Sunday 21st Feb 2021



frenchfoiler
234 posts
Monday , 12 Apr 2021 2:55PM
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colas said..

RichJam said..
Plus it sounds like surfing a platform shoe!



You realize that by foiling, you are already basically surfing with 30" high heels? ;-)


Not sure about wing because I don't really wing that much, but for surf foil and sup foil, the thickness of the board makes a huge difference for control and overall feeling. The thinner the better under your feet. The thickness of the board is totally different than the mast.

But to understand that you need to try both and that is what I've been doing and it is obvious than the concave deck gives way more control.

Piros
QLD, 6131 posts
Monday , 12 Apr 2021 5:11PM
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There you go Phil Frenchfoiler is on exactly same page as me . We are not talking paddling or wave catching but feel for the foil through a thinner deck .

Pacey
WA, 389 posts
Monday , 12 Apr 2021 4:45PM
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Piros said..
There you go Phil Frenchfoiler is on exactly same page as me . We are not talking paddling or wave catching but feel for the foil through a thinner deck .


What's the difference between two inches of board thickness and two inches of mast height? How is it that the board feels any different for those two cases?

PeterP
700 posts
Monday , 12 Apr 2021 5:18PM
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Interestingly in-conclusive: 6pax indicate/believe board thickness makes no difference and 3pax say it does...

Assuming thinner is better, when is a board too thick then: 5", 6" or 7"? Piros and Frenchfoiler seem to have experience with this and at what point did you feel you went too thick - and how much could you compensate for by doing concave deck?

frenchfoiler
234 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 4:32AM
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Pacey said..


Piros said..
There you go Phil Frenchfoiler is on exactly same page as me . We are not talking paddling or wave catching but feel for the foil through a thinner deck .




What's the difference between two inches of board thickness and two inches of mast height? How is it that the board feels any different for those two cases?



It has nothing to do, it is totally different.
Think about booties vs barefoot.

Downwinder
QLD, 1957 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 8:58AM
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frenchfoiler said..
It has nothing to do, it is totally different.
Think about booties vs barefoot.



Yes great question Frenchie, I can't surf in Booties I've tried but failed. My feet need to feel the board. Like when I go to places like Indonesia I wear wetsuit shorts so I can walk out onto the reef with Booties on paddle out through the break then sit on my surfboard take the Booties off then put the Booties down each side of my wetsuit shorts so I can surf barefeet then on my last wave I'll ride it all the way, put the Booties back on in the whitewater so I can walk back over the reef.

The only time I think I would/could only wear Booties because you'd have too anyway, would be when I go and SUP surf my 8'5'' high performance SUP would be August in Iceland when I SUP surf this wave in a Rip Curl Bomb heated 5mm insulated steamer with a Hood, Gloves and Booties.

This WAVE in ICELAND has been on my Bucket List of waves too surf for like 15 years already.


jondrums
56 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 9:56AM
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frenchfoiler said..


Pacey said..
What's the difference between two inches of board thickness and two inches of mast height? How is it that the board feels any different for those two cases?


It has nothing to do, it is totally different.
Think about booties vs barefoot.



Now I'm really confused! I don't understand this comment. I was sitting here thinking the same thing - in the air, a thicker board should feel the same as a longer mast. Is the suggestion that a thicker board isn't stiff enough or has "give" in the deck?

colas
4138 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 12:01PM
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Downwinder said..
I can't surf in Booties I've tried but failed. My feet need to feel the board.


If you can, try boots with latex soles (and a split toe).
I was never using booties until I discovered them.
Atan and Wetty are two French brands that make great ones, but there may be others.

Bender
WA, 2167 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 12:45PM
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My board nearly 6inches thick. Goes great












PeterP
700 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 1:31PM
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Bender said..
My board nearly 6inches thick. Goes great












Looks very interesting - what is length and dims and is this design specifically for sup-foil downwinding? And how does it track while paddling and how are touchdowns in comparison to what you used prior?

Bender
WA, 2167 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 1:38PM
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yes its designed for paddle downwinding (surfs pretty good to) and as a ding boards it unreal DIMS are 6"3 x 29 x 5 3/4. its tracks ok and it lifts so easily you only need a couple of strokes on small bump and you on foil. Touch downs are fine it just lightly touches and smoothly bounces back up without any catching

Downwinder
QLD, 1957 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 4:02PM
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colas said..

Downwinder said..
I can't surf in Booties I've tried but failed. My feet need to feel the board.



If you can, try boots with latex soles (and a split toe).
I was never using booties until I discovered them.
Atan and Wetty are two French brands that make great ones, but there may be others.

Hi Colas
I first tried Booties in Timor 1995 it was like 8-10ft (Timor has as much grunt as Cloudbreak but without the barrel) I was wearing the Rip Curl Reef Booties with the split toe "I found it hard to drive my 7'10'' surfboard" for the first week I preserved But for me Booties don't work, I can't surf in Booties. I've watched the GOAT Kelly Slater and the best FREE surfer on the planet Dane Reynolds surf in booties and they both still rip in Booties. BUT on a Stand Up in Iceland I recon I would be able to cope wearing Booties????

10ft Timor

Timor low-tide 6ft




PeterP
700 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 2:08PM
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Bender said..
yes its designed for paddle downwinding (surfs pretty good to) and as a ding boards it unreal DIMS are 6"3 x 29 x 5 3/4. its tracks ok and it lifts so easily you only need a couple of strokes on small bump and you on foil. Touch downs are fine it just lightly touches and smoothly bounces back up without any catching


Volume? Would you go shorter next time? And how much do you weigh?

Bender
WA, 2167 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 2:13PM
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PeterP said..

Bender said..
yes its designed for paddle downwinding (surfs pretty good to) and as a ding boards it unreal DIMS are 6"3 x 29 x 5 3/4. its tracks ok and it lifts so easily you only need a couple of strokes on small bump and you on foil. Touch downs are fine it just lightly touches and smoothly bounces back up without any catching



Volume? Would you go shorter next time? And how much do you weigh?


Shorter possibly but not by much as you need the paddle speed to get on foil. Maybe 6ft. Its approx 130L not including the deck cut out. I weigh 85kegs. The theory was more volume to float higher in the water for early lift off to get onfoil easier

warwickl
NSW, 1648 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 4:26PM
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For me boots always allow a bit of movement no matter how tight or design so I do not get that true direct connection.
It's 95% barefoot for me.

Downwinder
QLD, 1957 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 4:29PM
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Bender said..
My board nearly 6inches thick. Goes great






Thats Awesome Bender
Another believer that Thickness is your Friend - How heavy are you Bender??? your board, She looks quite narrow.
I'm a big fan of 5"inch thick by 28'' inch BUT I don't have the Chimes (I'm a non believer in that Gimmick) Chimes to me are just a sales pitch.
I'm very observant when I watch guys who Rip on the foil-boards both Prone or SUP with all the mod-cons like Chimes/Concave you name it once the foil-board hits the water they don't release freely they just stop dead. I'm a big fan of volume with a Displacement Hull ( I've got floatation and she don't stick to the water when it touches ).

PLEASE NOTE I'm note trying to take over PeterP post = I hope life is treating you well over there in South Africa PerterP you "Kaffir" you

South Africa has great waves and awesome downwind conditions.

Downwinder
QLD, 1957 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 4:33PM
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Bender said
Shorter possibly but not by much as you need the paddle speed to get on foil. Maybe 6ft. Its approx 130L not including the deck cut out. I weigh 85kegs. The theory was more volume to float higher in the water for early lift off to get onfoil easier


Great quote Bender I'd love to get down to say a 5ft SUP at around 130L for me when it comes to SUP foiling, a 130L is the ants pants

When I've been on my 6ft SUP @129L at the Alley she like 5''inch thick at 28" wide other SUP foilers have said to me "She looks small is that an inflatable"
I say no volume is your friend, hahahaha.

frenchfoiler
234 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 3:04PM
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jondrums said..

frenchfoiler said..



Pacey said..
What's the difference between two inches of board thickness and two inches of mast height? How is it that the board feels any different for those two cases?



It has nothing to do, it is totally different.
Think about booties vs barefoot.




Now I'm really confused! I don't understand this comment. I was sitting here thinking the same thing - in the air, a thicker board should feel the same as a longer mast. Is the suggestion that a thicker board isn't stiff enough or has "give" in the deck?


To make it simple : the more foam under your feet the less feeling and control. But it doesn't mean that a thick deck doesn't work, at some point you need volume, it is all about compromise.

Me personnaly, I've been using on my boards (sup, wing, surfoil) recess deck, so I have the volume but with less foam under my feet.










Piros
QLD, 6131 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 9:50PM
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This thread sort of got side tracked . What we are talking about is the further your feet is away from the the top of the mast and they are off centre the angle of lean is increased . It's like putting 2" blocks on top of a skate board . Minor adjustments become major adjustments. So when we talk about more feel on a thinner board that's exactly what we mean . Mast length has nothing to do with it . I've lost count of how many custom prone boards I've had made but the first priority is to keep it as thin as I can . Once you have ridden a high performance thinner board you will never go back , the feeling , drive and narrower rail profile which makes contact with the wave and releases in the turn giving you more speed is where it's all at . You just can't do that with big fat bog rails. Yes of course you still need enough foam for float and paddle , recessed decks are a great alternative but as you get better , less is best .

Pacey
WA, 389 posts
Tuesday , 13 Apr 2021 8:16PM
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Piros said..
This thread sort of got side tracked . What we are talking about is the further your feet is away from the the top of the mast and they are off centre the angle of lean is increased . It's like putting 2" blocks on top of a skate board . Minor adjustments become major adjustments. So when we talk about more feel on a thinner board that's exactly what we mean . Mast length has nothing to do with it . I've lost count of how many custom prone boards I've had made but the first priority is to keep it as thin as I can . Once you have ridden a high performance thinner board you will never go back , the feeling , drive and narrower rail profile which makes contact with the wave and releases in the turn giving you more speed is where it's all at . You just can't do that with big fat bog rails. Yes of course you still need enough foam for float and paddle , recessed decks are a great alternative but as you get better , less is best .


I went up to an 85cm mast from a 72cm mast a couple of months ago, by your logic this would make my board way harder to ride. But it doesn't. There isn't a hinge at the top of the mast like on a set of skateboard trucks- the board to mast base connection is rigid.
I can understand that on a prone board in the surf where the rail is contacting the water there will be a difference. But on a board that is clear of the water, I just don't see that there is going to be any effect as you describe

Downwinder
QLD, 1957 posts
Wednesday , 14 Apr 2021 6:15AM
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Here's a good one, I was out Prone foiling Burleigh. I guy from Narrow Neck was also prone foiling Burleigh, the guy is good prone foiler he can pump all over the place - I've only just started working out the pump with the 101 AXIS wing, it's taken me forever as I've only Prone foiled 180 days which has taken me nearly 4 years already (I'm just counting my Prone foil session until aI reach 365 days of foiling a full year as I'd rather ride a surfboard when the waves are on) Anyway we are trading wave having fun.

He says, your boards too thick.
I say, how thicks your board
He says, 3'' inches
I say, how heavy are you.
He says, 65kg
I say, my boards 4'' inches and I'm 95kg so work out the maths "you're an engineer right."

Later when we are both on the beach we're talking story. I say Prone foiling my 2nd preference, Surfing is my 1st preference.
The shocking look he gave me as if to say no Prone foiling is the only sport.

There is only two blokes I have the highest respect for when it comes to foiling is Beau O'Brian and good mate from Maui Jeremy Riggs these two blokes Rip on a foilboard and yet they can't surf a surfboard. like wtf, wow.

kobo
NSW, 582 posts
Wednesday , 14 Apr 2021 6:54AM
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Pacey said..

Piros said..
This thread sort of got side tracked . What we are talking about is the further your feet is away from the the top of the mast and they are off centre the angle of lean is increased . It's like putting 2" blocks on top of a skate board . Minor adjustments become major adjustments. So when we talk about more feel on a thinner board that's exactly what we mean . Mast length has nothing to do with it . I've lost count of how many custom prone boards I've had made but the first priority is to keep it as thin as I can . Once you have ridden a high performance thinner board you will never go back , the feeling , drive and narrower rail profile which makes contact with the wave and releases in the turn giving you more speed is where it's all at . You just can't do that with big fat bog rails. Yes of course you still need enough foam for float and paddle , recessed decks are a great alternative but as you get better , less is best .



I went up to an 85cm mast from a 72cm mast a couple of months ago, by your logic this would make my board way harder to ride. But it doesn't. There isn't a hinge at the top of the mast like on a set of skateboard trucks- the board to mast base connection is rigid.
I can understand that on a prone board in the surf where the rail is contacting the water there will be a difference. But on a board that is clear of the water, I just don't see that there is going to be any effect as you describe


Maybe it's like mast plate wedges, in theory it shouldn't make any difference but in reality it definitely does.

Piros
QLD, 6131 posts
Wednesday , 14 Apr 2021 7:32AM
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Pacey said..

Piros said..
This thread sort of got side tracked . What we are talking about is the further your feet is away from the the top of the mast and they are off centre the angle of lean is increased . It's like putting 2" blocks on top of a skate board . Minor adjustments become major adjustments. So when we talk about more feel on a thinner board that's exactly what we mean . Mast length has nothing to do with it . I've lost count of how many custom prone boards I've had made but the first priority is to keep it as thin as I can . Once you have ridden a high performance thinner board you will never go back , the feeling , drive and narrower rail profile which makes contact with the wave and releases in the turn giving you more speed is where it's all at . You just can't do that with big fat bog rails. Yes of course you still need enough foam for float and paddle , recessed decks are a great alternative but as you get better , less is best .



I went up to an 85cm mast from a 72cm mast a couple of months ago, by your logic this would make my board way harder to ride. But it doesn't. There isn't a hinge at the top of the mast like on a set of skateboard trucks- the board to mast base connection is rigid.
I can understand that on a prone board in the surf where the rail is contacting the water there will be a difference. But on a board that is clear of the water, I just don't see that there is going to be any effect as you describe


Just try a thinner board you'll know what I mean then.



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"How thick is too thick for SUP/Wing boards?" started by PeterP