Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Impact of Fuselage lenght on pumping

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Created by Filow 2 months ago, 10 Mar 2020
Filow
154 posts
10 Mar 2020 5:39AM
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All is in the title ! Of course a shorter fuselage will make the foil more easy to turn, more loose but regarding the pumping speed and the effort / foward movement ratio what do you think ?

JB
NSW, 2074 posts
Site Sponsor
10 Mar 2020 12:06PM
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Filow said..
All is in the title ! Of course a shorter fuselage will make the foil more easy to turn, more loose but regarding the pumping speed and the effort / foward movement ratio what do you think ?


This is not as easy as a blanket answer. There is so many things that will account for pumping and the effect, and most of it is skills.

Theoretically I would say the longer fuselage should give you a more powerful pump with the rear wing achieving more "power" from its leverage and creating a stronger down force (therefore strong up force on the front wing) over a shorter fuselage.

BUT....

Personally I find pumping on the shorter fuselage extremely efficient, and with smaller and higher aspect foils somewhat easier over a longer distance provided you keep your speed up and have good technique.

The shorter fuselage is less stable, so therefore may make an actual controlled input harder for a novice rider. Some like a longer fuselage for DW'ing as it helps with control especially at speed.

So, where is this all going. I would suggest the standard length of Fuselage seems to be around 65cm. And this is a great starting point. It is efficient and easy to pump with, has control and power to pump. As your skill grow and control is no longer such a massive issue, then moving towards a shorter fuselage may be something you wish to visit to achieve a looser and free'er feeling ride especially for surfing.

I use a 55cm Fuselage for everything. Surfing, SUP, prone, Winging, DW'ing. I also nearly always use 1240-1250 cm2 foils.

I would not suggest going short fuselage early in your foiling journey or until you have mastered pumping.

Hope this helps a little,

Ride safe,

JB

Fishdude
75 posts
10 Mar 2020 9:34AM
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I just started making some different length fuselages . I really don't know the answer but this makes sense to me.

Shorter fuselage, = easier/weaker pump, higher frequency pumps to get the same distance.
I'm thinking what works best for one person, may not work great for another. Heavier guy vs lighter guy... Kind of like people riding geared bicycles at the same road speed, one guy may like a low gear the other may like a higher gear and peddles faster.

I'm interested in others thoughts and experiences.

Edit, You also have the angle or pitch of the rear wing, (not to mention the size of it) that may work better at a different pump speed... When you start thinking about it, there could be quit a few factors.

Clamsmasha
WA, 188 posts
10 Mar 2020 9:42AM
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Great timing.

Ive been tapping holes into my Gofoil setup for a while. Last hole puts the measurement @ 575mm from main leading edge to stab trailing edge. From memory the original Kai and Maliko were 750mm??

I rode it last night at my regular spot, onlyother difference was a new HA stab cut to 16" instead of the usual 18". Ive been running it at 645mm for weeks (GL210 plus 18" stab).

It pumped well, but I had to adjust technique....short shallow pumps mostly seemed to be the go. (KDMaui trot) It felt a little more efficient when I was coasting. I'd have to say it was a fair bit less forgiving due to pitch sensitivity and I ploughed into chop a couple of times, but that got better after a while. I had to narrow my stance. I went back a notch to 610mm and that was great, required a bit less attention and felt kind of felt drivey.
Pretty sure after a session or two and it'll be the new normal.

The big plus was the turns. They were amazing at times. It felt so much tighter. I can't wait to get some groundswell and put it on some proper walls.

Ill try with the 18" stab today for a fairer comparison.

This the 575 position. She's short! (Thanks Kent!)

tightlines
WA, 3267 posts
10 Mar 2020 10:30AM
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Clamsmasha said..
Great timing.

Ive been tapping holes into my Gofoil setup for a while. Last hole puts the measurement @ 575mm from main leading edge to stab trailing edge. From memory the original Kai and Maliko were 750mm??

I rode it last night at my regular spot, onlyother difference was a new HA stab cut to 16" instead of the usual 18". Ive been running it at 645mm for weeks (GL210 plus 18" stab).

It pumped well, but I had to adjust technique....short shallow pumps mostly seemed to be the go. (KDMaui trot) It felt a little more efficient when I was coasting. I'd have to say it was a fair bit less forgiving due to pitch sensitivity and I ploughed into chop a couple of times, but that got better after a while. I had to narrow my stance. I went back a notch to 610mm and that was great, required a bit less attention and felt kind of felt drivey.
Pretty sure after a session or two and it'll be the new normal.

The big plus was the turns. They were amazing at times. It felt so much tighter. I can't wait to get some groundswell and put it on some proper walls.

Ill try with the 18" stab today for a fairer comparison.

This the 675mm position. She's short!





Surely that is a typo and it is the 575 position?
Yep it's short.

Clamsmasha
WA, 188 posts
10 Mar 2020 10:33AM
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tightlines said..
Clamsmasha said..
Great timing.

Ive been tapping holes into my Gofoil setup for a while. Last hole puts the measurement @ 575mm from main leading edge to stab trailing edge. From memory the original Kai and Maliko were 750mm??

I rode it last night at my regular spot, onlyother difference was a new HA stab cut to 16" instead of the usual 18". Ive been running it at 645mm for weeks (GL210 plus 18" stab).

It pumped well, but I had to adjust technique....short shallow pumps mostly seemed to be the go. (KDMaui trot) It felt a little more efficient when I was coasting. I'd have to say it was a fair bit less forgiving due to pitch sensitivity and I ploughed into chop a couple of times, but that got better after a while. I had to narrow my stance. I went back a notch to 610mm and that was great, required a bit less attention and felt kind of felt drivey.
Pretty sure after a session or two and it'll be the new normal.

The big plus was the turns. They were amazing at times. It felt so much tighter. I can't wait to get some groundswell and put it on some proper walls.

Ill try with the 18" stab today for a fairer comparison.

This the 675mm position. She's short!





Surely that is a typo and it is the 575 position?
Yep it's short.


Yep, 575mm thanks Kent, edited above.

Filow
154 posts
23 Apr 2020 7:02PM
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I have the 60 fuse of Armstrong. I am wondering if getting the 70cm will help me have more power and have to pump less when I do dock starts.
The main problem is that this is so physically intense I am looking for the best solution.
Question is 70CM fuse does help pumping less ?

Cygnify
QLD, 79 posts
24 Apr 2020 8:43AM
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Select to expand quote
JB said..

Filow said..
All is in the title ! Of course a shorter fuselage will make the foil more easy to turn, more loose but regarding the pumping speed and the effort / foward movement ratio what do you think ?



This is not as easy as a blanket answer. There is so many things that will account for pumping and the effect, and most of it is skills.

Theoretically I would say the longer fuselage should give you a more powerful pump with the rear wing achieving more "power" from its leverage and creating a stronger down force (therefore strong up force on the front wing) over a shorter fuselage.

BUT....

Personally I find pumping on the shorter fuselage extremely efficient, and with smaller and higher aspect foils somewhat easier over a longer distance provided you keep your speed up and have good technique.

The shorter fuselage is less stable, so therefore may make an actual controlled input harder for a novice rider. Some like a longer fuselage for DW'ing as it helps with control especially at speed.

So, where is this all going. I would suggest the standard length of Fuselage seems to be around 65cm. And this is a great starting point. It is efficient and easy to pump with, has control and power to pump. As your skill grow and control is no longer such a massive issue, then moving towards a shorter fuselage may be something you wish to visit to achieve a looser and free'er feeling ride especially for surfing.

I use a 55cm Fuselage for everything. Surfing, SUP, prone, Winging, DW'ing. I also nearly always use 1240-1250 cm2 foils.

I would not suggest going short fuselage early in your foiling journey or until you have mastered pumping.

Hope this helps a little,

Ride safe,

JB


What brand has a 55cm Fuselage or is it a custom job?

Windgenuity
NSW, 349 posts
Site Sponsor
24 Apr 2020 10:04AM
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Cygnify said..

JB said..


Filow said..
All is in the title ! Of course a shorter fuselage will make the foil more easy to turn, more loose but regarding the pumping speed and the effort / foward movement ratio what do you think ?




This is not as easy as a blanket answer. There is so many things that will account for pumping and the effect, and most of it is skills.

Theoretically I would say the longer fuselage should give you a more powerful pump with the rear wing achieving more "power" from its leverage and creating a stronger down force (therefore strong up force on the front wing) over a shorter fuselage.

BUT....

Personally I find pumping on the shorter fuselage extremely efficient, and with smaller and higher aspect foils somewhat easier over a longer distance provided you keep your speed up and have good technique.

The shorter fuselage is less stable, so therefore may make an actual controlled input harder for a novice rider. Some like a longer fuselage for DW'ing as it helps with control especially at speed.

So, where is this all going. I would suggest the standard length of Fuselage seems to be around 65cm. And this is a great starting point. It is efficient and easy to pump with, has control and power to pump. As your skill grow and control is no longer such a massive issue, then moving towards a shorter fuselage may be something you wish to visit to achieve a looser and free'er feeling ride especially for surfing.

I use a 55cm Fuselage for everything. Surfing, SUP, prone, Winging, DW'ing. I also nearly always use 1240-1250 cm2 foils.

I would not suggest going short fuselage early in your foiling journey or until you have mastered pumping.

Hope this helps a little,

Ride safe,

JB



What brand has a 55cm Fuselage or is it a custom job?


Shhhhhh, it's a secret .

Naish may have one in their next season line up. Stay tuned.

JB

Piros
QLD, 5851 posts
24 Apr 2020 11:18AM
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Here's my rough overview:- The longer fuse feels more comfortable & easier to pump when you first hop on a shorter fuse. Some people freak out and go that's terrible too hard and swap back to the longer fuse. You need to stick at it you will get used to it. The shorter well get you turning harder and faster in and out of turns generating more speed , the pump again at first will feel tricky because its a shorter pump arc , you will soon master this as well and be pumping faster and more efficiently. Once you get used to it next is reduce your tail wing and you get everything above x 2.

For all the Axis users out there , the std Fuselage is really long 76.5cm , their short is actually normal length 68cm and the "Ultra Short" is what you consider "Short." 62.5cm

kobo
NSW, 215 posts
24 Apr 2020 12:13PM
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Yep I found the 60 fuse on the Armstrong with the 232 tail the best for me so far , I can pump as long as my cardio lasts now , at first I didn't like the smaller tail for pumping ,but now I've adjusted it's definitely less drag and more efficient

goggo
NSW, 101 posts
24 Apr 2020 1:44PM
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Just starting to get the hang of pumping. I am on the axis standard fuse 920 S front and 500 rear. Which would give the best bang for buck?
$300 for a 400 rear or $400+ for the short fuse. Now going into winter don't think l will be dinging for a while, so mostly sup foiling. Cheers.



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"Impact of Fuselage lenght on pumping" started by Filow