Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Old Farts Dock Pumping

Reply
Created by cutbacker 9 months ago, 11 Nov 2019
Dommo49
80 posts
17 Jun 2020 1:29PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Camarillo said..
I am a 64yo sup foiler , never proned but I like the pumping a lot with my sup.
After reading about dock starting I just have to give it a try this summer.

Only thing I need is a deck, any recommendations? I am not planning to prone, my back is too stiff!


Any wakefoil board will do. I cut down an old wake surf board and added a four threaded inserts to mount the mast. Works fine.

Scotty Mac
SA, 1957 posts
17 Jun 2020 3:19PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Dommo49 said..

Scotty Mac said..
Hey Cutbacker its all a bit of personnel preference. Turned up tips give a little more drive than that flatter tail wing (18W). Without the tips the tail wing makes for a sliding feel and flatter turning. The standard flat tail wing also felt a tiny bit faster to me as the foil in finer profile but that might be just me. I like the slide feel on a down winder but prefer the drivey tips surfing. A smaller rear wing is also looser and a larger one generates more lift. There's no right or wrong, try and think what feeling your looking for and select the tail wing from that.



Scotty Mac - this is the best description I've seen of what the different tails do in terms of performance. Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'drive'? Do you mean directional stability?


Yes when I mean drive I mean directional stability and hold. Tips gives that I think. Flat tail wing has a more tail sliding feeling and easily flat turns.

Dommo49
80 posts
18 Jun 2020 12:02PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Scotty Mac said..

Dommo49 said..


Scotty Mac said..
Hey Cutbacker its all a bit of personnel preference. Turned up tips give a little more drive than that flatter tail wing (18W). Without the tips the tail wing makes for a sliding feel and flatter turning. The standard flat tail wing also felt a tiny bit faster to me as the foil in finer profile but that might be just me. I like the slide feel on a down winder but prefer the drivey tips surfing. A smaller rear wing is also looser and a larger one generates more lift. There's no right or wrong, try and think what feeling your looking for and select the tail wing from that.




Scotty Mac - this is the best description I've seen of what the different tails do in terms of performance. Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'drive'? Do you mean directional stability?



Yes when I mean drive I mean directional stability and hold. Tips gives that I think. Flat tail wing has a more tail sliding feeling and easily flat turns.


Nice one Scotty. That really helps

Camarillo
283 posts
18 Jun 2020 4:05PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Dommo49 said..

Camarillo said..
Only thing I need is a deck, any recommendations? I am not planning to prone, my back is too stiff!

Any wakefoil board will do. I cut down an old wake surf board and added a four threaded inserts to mount the mast. Works fine.


But I don't have anything I could use, have to buy a board.
Should I get a board that is as short as possible?
Axis tray perhaps? Very thin boards, not for prone

They come in 94 ,110 and 125 cm that is 3'1" , 3'7" and 4'1"


Or something like this: also for prone , a bit thicker

They come in 3'10" , 4'2" and 4'6

cutbacker
WA, 18 posts
18 Jun 2020 8:04PM
Thumbs Up

Buy something that is as cheap as possible. Spend the money the foil.

Camarillo
283 posts
18 Jun 2020 11:20PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cutbacker said..
Buy something that is as cheap as possible. Spend the money the foil.


Thanks, but I already have foils, Axis s1020 and s1010 and I need as much help from my equipment as possible...
Should I go as short as possible? Or is 3'1" / 94 cm to short?

Dommo49
80 posts
19 Jun 2020 4:38PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Camarillo said..

Dommo49 said..


Camarillo said..
Only thing I need is a deck, any recommendations? I am not planning to prone, my back is too stiff!


Any wakefoil board will do. I cut down an old wake surf board and added a four threaded inserts to mount the mast. Works fine.



But I don't have anything I could use, have to buy a board.
Should I get a board that is as short as possible?
Axis tray perhaps? Very thin boards, not for prone

They come in 94 ,110 and 125 cm that is 3'1" , 3'7" and 4'1"


Or something like this: also for prone , a bit thicker

They come in 3'10" , 4'2" and 4'6


If all you're going to use it for is dock starts/flat water pumping then the lighter and shorter the better. Having said that 3'1" sounds pretty extreme but there's no reason why it won't work.

Dommo49
80 posts
29 Jul 2020 9:37PM
Thumbs Up

I'm resurrecting this post because I've been playing around with fuselage length and tail sizes for flat water pumping and have FINALLY just broken a minute for continuous flat water pumping, 67 seconds being my PB so far, using the GoFoil GL240, 32.5" mast, long fuselage and an 18W flat tail cut down to 14.5".
I can't get hold of the GoFoil short fuse yet so I got hold of a 3D printed version just to see what it was like. I loved it - it instantly seemed to make flat water pumping easier, BUT, after a while despite my best efforts I couldn't break 45 seconds, so I went back to the long fuse and very quickly realised that although the short fuse seems easier because it allows you to use a faster pump frequency which allows you to travel faster, because the long fuse needs a slower pump frequency it gives you way more glide with each pump, therefore allowing you to conserve energy and pump for longer.
For tail wings, I started off using my 18W flat tail wing, and again because the new GoFoil shorter tails with upturned wing tips aren't available to me yet, I got a Takuma lol 270 tail wing to see what difference it made (by a happy coincidence they fit the GoFoil pedestals). I instantly loved it (and still do for winging) as it has the same lift but was way smoother, more reactive and turns soooo well. Because I preferred the Takuma tail over the 18W for everything, I realised I would probably never use the 18W tail again (I have the GoFoil 14.5" flip tip tail on order) so I cut the 18W down to 14.5" to see what it would be like - result: still gives the same great lift and glide as before but it has way less drag - instantly preferred it to the original size. The takuma tail is still more lively (more responsive pitch control and the turns are smoother (I love it for surf foiling and winging) but the cut down 18W is more stable in terms of pitch control so it pumps better. Interestingly I've used the cut down tail for wake foiling once so far and it was amazing - again the same lift and glide as it had originally but it was REALLY loose - turned really fast, but very skatey. I need to do more testing with it on the wake and in surf (and with the GL180 as well as the 240) to know for sure, but from what I've heard about it I think I'll prefer the 14.5" tail with the upturned tips as everyone says its as good as the flat tails but with the added bonus of being more directionally stable AND is really drivey through turns. When I get it, if I find this to be the case I'll probably cut the old 18W down even more, probably to 12.5" to see what that feels like - listening to Adam Bennets on the 'Progression Project' foiling podcasts, he said that he thinks a small tail on a long fuse can loosen up a foil in the same way that using a short fuse does. Interesting times



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling


"Old Farts Dock Pumping" started by cutbacker