Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Still learning Wind wing

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Created by Seajuice 9 months ago, 20 Sep 2019
baldy123
WA, 67 posts
6 Oct 2019 10:06PM
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Seajuice,

I started this new wing wang craze 3months back and now find it very natural and super fun in winds 12-30knots. I've windsurfed 20+ years and Suped 10+. Some tips that might help.

Foil Wing size
Get the biggest foil wing you can to learn. I've used the Axis 102 initially. Slow, stable with early lift. Handles higher wind speeds find, but top speed maxes out. The smaller 820 works fine in 20knots+ wind for me at 88kg.

Reading the wind
For starting in marginal conditions 15-20knots look for a gust when on the water. Dark patches, ripples. When you feel it pump the wing and board. If you don't get lifting in 20metres. Reset and try again in the next gust.

Handles
I use the 2nd from front and 3rd from back most of the time on the Naish 4m.

Board
Floaty and short.
I'm using a 125Litre, 6'8 Sunova.

Footstraps
I Learnt without.
However, I'm now using a front strap. I find this allows for more aggressive pumping up onto the foil and I like the locked on board feeling in higher winds.

Foot Position.
This is critical for the initial lift off I find to keep balanced.
Backfoot - on centreline over the foil.
Front foot - off centreline slightly towards the windward rail. Pointing 45 degrees forward, this is similar to windsurf stance. This is my preference.

Windspeed
Learning in 20knots or more
is easiest, unless riding the biggest foils. If you are struggling to find good conditions book a holiday to WA this summer. The sea breezes have just started to kick in....25knots all afternoon today.

Head protection
Recommended....I've gone over the front of the board at speed several times and been run over by my board and foil. No damage to Self
or Wing as yet, but things do change very fast even when you think you've got the hang of it.

Stick at it. I'm addicted...

Seajuice
NSW, 620 posts
7 Oct 2019 11:19AM
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Thanks Baldy123. I have been doing basically everything you suggested. So am happy I'm on track.
I have been a little tentative on the pumping though & need a little more on the wind speed.
My brain & muscle memory are seeming to come together. So hopefully I will have more confidence in future sessions. The smaller lighter board is responding better to the upwind. And the Windwing feels more tame just after the pump?
But so far the fun part has been zero due to falls, kicking submerged rocks with both feet & foil on my waist deep walk back to where I launched. So might just remove those 3 rocks one day at low tight.
But by the next day I am hangin for the challenge & know the fun will kick in when up & foiling.
Need more free time. Hate work!

azymuth
WA, 1071 posts
7 Oct 2019 11:40AM
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baldy123 said..
Seajuice,

I started this new wing wang craze 3months back and now find it very natural and super fun in winds 12-30knots. I've windsurfed 20+ years and Suped 10+. Some tips that might help.

Foil Wing size
Get the biggest foil wing you can to learn. I've used the Axis 102 initially. Slow, stable with early lift. Handles higher wind speeds find, but top speed maxes out. The smaller 820 works fine in 20knots+ wind for me at 88kg.

Reading the wind
For starting in marginal conditions 15-20knots look for a gust when on the water. Dark patches, ripples. When you feel it pump the wing and board. If you don't get lifting in 20metres. Reset and try again in the next gust.

Handles
I use the 2nd from front and 3rd from back most of the time on the Naish 4m.

Board
Floaty and short.
I'm using a 125Litre, 6'8 Sunova.

Footstraps
I Learnt without.
However, I'm now using a front strap. I find this allows for more aggressive pumping up onto the foil and I like the locked on board feeling in higher winds.

Foot Position.
This is critical for the initial lift off I find to keep balanced.
Backfoot - on centreline over the foil.
Front foot - off centreline slightly towards the windward rail. Pointing 45 degrees forward, this is similar to windsurf stance. This is my preference.

Windspeed
Learning in 20knots or more
is easiest, unless riding the biggest foils. If you are struggling to find good conditions book a holiday to WA this summer. The sea breezes have just started to kick in....25knots all afternoon today.

Head protection
Recommended....I've gone over the front of the board at speed several times and been run over by my board and foil. No damage to Self
or Wing as yet, but things do change very fast even when you think you've got the hang of it.

Stick at it. I'm addicted...


Top tips Peter - I'd better give my SlingWing another airing soon

You looked smooth out there yesterday

maxa
SA, 58 posts
7 Oct 2019 2:35PM
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Reading all these posts with interest. Having just bought a 4m Naish wingsurfer with 2450 jet foil.
Tried for first time Saturday 10-18knts. Got on foil a couple times momentarily.
I am 95kg long time windsurfer and was hoping to foil with wing in under 20 knots, is this possible (without heaps of experience) on a 4m wing?
Would a 5m wing get me foiling in 5knts less wind?

juandesooka
353 posts
7 Oct 2019 1:41PM
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Seems like there's a fair amount of variation between brands and models, in low end power.

In kiting, there were some brands that had "an 8m, but it flies like a 10m" ... which were more or less misnamed. It seems that is pretty standardized now, an 8m is much the same brand to brand. Seems to be the same in windsurfing?

But in wings, one brand's 4.2m is reported to be stronger than another's 5m. There are 7m wings, but may not be stronger than others 6m's or possibly even 5m's. Seems to be shaking down still. There is a comparison chart someone posted, lists all the brands and the reported wind ranges. For the 5m I was on, supposed to work down to 15kt, but as a beginner, I needed more like 20 to get going comfortably. I figure the lower end will come with better technique. Though I want to chase the 10-15kt range, so a bigger wing is in order.

scubaste
WA, 210 posts
7 Oct 2019 7:04PM
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maxa said..
Reading all these posts with interest. Having just bought a 4m Naish wingsurfer with 2450 jet foil.
Tried for first time Saturday 10-18knts. Got on foil a couple times momentarily.
I am 95kg long time windsurfer and was hoping to foil with wing in under 20 knots, is this possible (without heaps of experience) on a 4m wing?
Would a 5m wing get me foiling in 5knts less wind?

Hi Maxa
I'm 95kgs on a 4m Wasp axis foil 1020 front wing 7'6" board or 6'2" 12knots easy to get on the foil, by pumping the board and wing, just bear off the wind onto a broard reach and pump, really not to much effort.
You will never get up on the foil with just the pull of the wing without pumping the board n wing unless it was
20+ knots.
Put it this way I used to ride a wave board with a 5m sail in 12+knots and that is on a planing hull.
So once you are up on the foil 4m is heaps.
Hope this gives you the bit of hope you need

MidAtlanticFoil
71 posts
8 Oct 2019 4:19AM
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Recent ride stats (4 W's: Wind speed, Wing Size, Weight, foil Wing size)

Wind: 13-17knts
Wing: 4.2M Slingwing
Weight: 65kg
Foil Wing: 1550HS Armstrong
Board: 100Ltr 5'10" board
Session: #3
Background: prone foiling for 1.5yrs

With two 1 mile downwinding sessions on the 4.2M under my belt, I decided to launch next to a few windsurfers who were going back and forth along a rocky shoreline with only a small beach to launch from on one end (6M sails I believe). Able to walk out to chest deep water around 20 meters from the rocks and quickly get up with the wind at my back heading along the shoreline. Quickly caught a gust and was up on foil with a few pumps. I rode the whole shoreline, around a kilometer up on foil, trying to figure out how to stay upwind and not fly into the rocks. It was pretty easy and I even made it upwind some. It was a blast and the side chop / 2 foot waves made it interesting to say the least. Managed not to over-foil, but it was close a few times.

Coming back, toeside facing the wind, I was not able to get up on foil and ended up just slogging back, trying to keep up wind as much as possible. Going back heelside, I guess the wind died and I wasn't able to get up, so I slogged out and back once more. By the end my left shoulder was cooked, felt like a permanent cramp in the back of my shoulder (which has finally subsided two days later).

My situation was tough due to the hazardous shoreline, so I couldn't bear off the wind into a broad reach as Scubaste recommends. I hope to find a good side/onshore spot to get this more dialed in.

DaHammerBDA
28 posts
8 Oct 2019 10:08PM
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Fourth session for me as well on a Naish 4M / 110 L board / GoFoil Maliko / 75kg. Wind 15kts - 20kts w/higher gusts. SUP foil for over a year. No problems heel side could go for miles. The struggle is real when I turn around and try and ride switch or toe side, experimenting with both to try and figure out which way is easier. I kind of get up on the foil but all the body mechanics are either reversed or backwards and I crash and burn, no fun. Hoping its a muscle memory thing and I will get the hang of it because riding heel side is so much fun.

bigtone667
NSW, 1226 posts
9 Oct 2019 7:54AM
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DaHammerBDA said..
Fourth session for me as well on a Naish 4M / 110 L board / GoFoil Maliko / 75kg. Wind 15kts - 20kts w/higher gusts. SUP foil for over a year. No problems heel side could go for miles. The struggle is real when I turn around and try and ride switch or toe side, experimenting with both to try and figure out which way is easier. I kind of get up on the foil but all the body mechanics are either reversed or backwards and I crash and burn, no fun. Hoping its a muscle memory thing and I will get the hang of it because riding heel side is so much fun.


Having a decent amount of wind helped me nut it out. I struggled when there was only 15 knots, but killed it when there was 25 knots.

MidAtlanticFoil
71 posts
9 Oct 2019 8:51AM
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I just ordered a 2400 cm Army wing and a f-one Swing 5m. I reckon I should be good at 8 knots on the low end with that combo at 65 kgs! Will report back.

hilly
WA, 5358 posts
9 Oct 2019 1:37PM
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MidAtlanticFoil said..
I just ordered a 2400 cm Army wing and a f-one Swing 5m. I reckon I should be good at 8 knots on the low end with that combo at 65 kgs! Will report back.

2400 is great to learn on. Really stable I can foil on goofy tack as well. Stoked.

Piros
QLD, 5911 posts
9 Oct 2019 7:33PM
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Pretty epic session downwind on the Ding today Snapper to North Burleigh . 20 to 25 kts SE which is our rare golden breeze here . Was on my JP 6-8x 26 -96 litres which is far from ideal in those strong winds , restarting was tough a wider board would have been better but I dealt with it , max speed 36.7km , max heart rate 188 , average 144 , which is really for me so I was working pretty hard. Was on my 90 Axis 1277cm2 it was awesome . The Duotone 4m was a handful at times it really is a powerful wing but tough I ran over it about 10 times .

The 90 Axis was the perfect wing for these conditions anything bigger and I would have blown out instantly . I was doing some big carving turns in the troughs and all my prone riding was a big help but my limited Downwind time in the ocean caught me out a few times . Still a lot to learn and need to tune my skills on wing placement when I'm on high speed runners. Hard day but heaps of fun .

Seajuice
NSW, 620 posts
11 Oct 2019 1:57AM
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Got stuff Piros.
I believe you needed the 75-80cm mast too for those conditions?
And yeah the 6ft 8" x 26" wide board is hard enough in choppy swirly surf without a wing. So going to take me a while to learn DW on that!
Hoping that my wider heavier board will work going down a wind wave with wind to help me get the speed needed on either the Neilpryde large or medium foil? But that's a long way away yet. Absolutely loving the SUP foil surfing at the moment. only trouble is my 59 year old body seizes up after a 3 to 4 hour session.

Piros
QLD, 5911 posts
11 Oct 2019 6:45AM
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Yes I had the 75 mast , I was riding my std prone set up . 75 mast , short fuse , 90 front , 400 rear wings . I tried straps previous session but took them off . I really don't like them but yes they definitely help to pump up on the foil BUT I just don't foil with my feet on the centre line of the board , so they just feel wrong. When you are riding in nuking winds your feet are constantly shifting , maybe in calmer waters for low wind days they could be a bonus. Next run I'll try the NP large.

Surlygringo
17 posts
12 Oct 2019 2:46AM
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Foil Colorado, where are you located? I am in Boulder and am selling a 7m wing which is a big help in getting up on the foil in high altitude(less dense air and water) conditions.

juandesooka
353 posts
12 Oct 2019 4:58AM
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Surlygringo said..
Foil Colorado, where are you located? I am in Boulder and am selling a 7m wing which is a big help in getting up on the foil in high altitude(less dense air and water) conditions.


I sent you a pm/email surlygringo

tightlines
WA, 3282 posts
12 Oct 2019 7:26PM
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First go at our normal local downwind run in around 18 knots.
A few runs with the wing should fast track my foil downwinding with a paddle.

5mtr Duotone, 6'8 ONE and 102 Axis wing.



www.relive.cc/view/vmqX12MLmLv

tightlines
WA, 3282 posts
12 Oct 2019 10:31PM
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HBsups
66 posts
20 Oct 2019 4:15AM
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Piros said..
Yes I had the 75 mast , I was riding my std prone set up . 75 mast , short fuse , 90 front , 400 rear wings . I tried straps previous session but took them off . I really don't like them but yes they definitely help to pump up on the foil BUT I just don't foil with my feet on the centre line of the board , so they just feel wrong. When you are riding in nuking winds your feet are constantly shifting , maybe in calmer waters for low wind days they could be a bonus. Next run I'll try the NP large.


Hey Piros did you ever get out for that wingding session on theNP large?
just interested to see if it works as not many others seem to be getting up on the NP with the wingding...

cheers HB

Seajuice
NSW, 620 posts
29 Oct 2019 4:20PM
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HBsups said..

Piros said..
Yes I had the 75 mast , I was riding my std prone set up . 75 mast , short fuse , 90 front , 400 rear wings . I tried straps previous session but took them off . I really don't like them but yes they definitely help to pump up on the foil BUT I just don't foil with my feet on the centre line of the board , so they just feel wrong. When you are riding in nuking winds your feet are constantly shifting , maybe in calmer waters for low wind days they could be a bonus. Next run I'll try the NP large.



Hey Piros did you ever get out for that wingding session on theNP large?
just interested to see if it works as not many others seem to be getting up on the NP with the wingding...

cheers HB


Hi HB. I went out today on my 6ft 8" board with NP Large foil with 2 washers between the stabilizer tail wing & fuselarge. But again no go as the wind wasn't up as expected until the end of my session & water got too shallow due to run out tide. With a bit more wind I think I would have had more of a chance.
But as I got out of the water I saw a mate of mine up on his foil cruising towards me with opposite stance to me so he could go against the run of the current.
Chatted to him & yes he got up on the Neil Pryde Large wing in about 15 to 20 knots against the current where at one stage he was stationary & had to give the board a bit of a pump to get moving. But it was more difficult running with the current flow. He only weighs around 70 to 75 kilos using a 6ft 85litre board.
So like Piros said Flying against current helps getting up on foil.

Piros
QLD, 5911 posts
29 Oct 2019 4:06PM
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HBsups said..


Piros said..
Yes I had the 75 mast , I was riding my std prone set up . 75 mast , short fuse , 90 front , 400 rear wings . I tried straps previous session but took them off . I really don't like them but yes they definitely help to pump up on the foil BUT I just don't foil with my feet on the centre line of the board , so they just feel wrong. When you are riding in nuking winds your feet are constantly shifting , maybe in calmer waters for low wind days they could be a bonus. Next run I'll try the NP large.




Hey Piros did you ever get out for that wingding session on theNP large?
just interested to see if it works as not many others seem to be getting up on the NP with the wingding...

cheers HB



Yes on the large don't really use the XL anymore and even got up on the Slim Medium. Good wind though 20+.





Seajuice
NSW, 620 posts
29 Oct 2019 8:41PM
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Piros said..

HBsups said..



Piros said..
Yes I had the 75 mast , I was riding my std prone set up . 75 mast , short fuse , 90 front , 400 rear wings . I tried straps previous session but took them off . I really don't like them but yes they definitely help to pump up on the foil BUT I just don't foil with my feet on the centre line of the board , so they just feel wrong. When you are riding in nuking winds your feet are constantly shifting , maybe in calmer waters for low wind days they could be a bonus. Next run I'll try the NP large.





Hey Piros did you ever get out for that wingding session on theNP large?
just interested to see if it works as not many others seem to be getting up on the NP with the wingding...

cheers HB




Yes on the large don't really use the XL anymore and even got up on the Slim Medium. Good wind though 20+.






Great to hear Rob. I checked the strength of the wind with my meter before I went out. It only went up to 15 knots.
It didn't take much for my mate who is a better foiler than me, to get the foil up going with current but it would just sink down again. So he has the proper technique.
So as summer comes on I should have better sessions when timing the tides & current.
At least now I know it's doable. Just got to work on pumping technique.

Piros
QLD, 5911 posts
29 Oct 2019 8:27PM
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Yeah just wait for wind 18 to 20 comes together with solid wind so easy.

bigtone667
NSW, 1226 posts
30 Oct 2019 6:05AM
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The challenge for me is simply unsticking the board at my weight.

I was using 4m duotone yesterday in 15/20 odd knots and having to work hard to pop onto the foil. Once I was up I was well powered.

I decided to avoid the hard work and tried the 5m duotone. It was now super easy to pop up and now very very well powered on the foil.

Overall, I am better at it now than two months ago, and I suspect that is due to appreciating which gusts will give me enough to pop up.

Seajuice
NSW, 620 posts
30 Oct 2019 8:17PM
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Good stuff. I think I'm on the right track by cruising along & waiting for that wind gust before pumping.
It did feel better in the stronger wind and what still amazed me is how the Naish wing seems to calm & just lift up after pulling it. It feels a bit like hanging from a Hang glider as it takes off. And this is what I'll be waiting for to pull myself up higher to get the board off the water surface.

robg1703
NSW, 132 posts
2 Nov 2019 8:03PM
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I've never done any wind sports (only self propelled sup & foil downwinders) but decided to give this "Wing Ding" thing a go after watching the crew on Maui in July after calling it a hoax when i first saw it...
Got the Naish wing from JB a couple of weeks ago & took it out twice on a big old 10'6 sup in light winds to get a feel for it & then decided I may as well try it on my 6'5 Jimmy Lewis Flying V foil board to test stability with the GoFoil 29.5" mast & M200 wing....It felt just as stable as the big sup board but didn't dream of trying to get it up on the foil...
Today we had 25 knot plus NE so I bit the bullet & went straight out for 7.5km downwinder.....Fricken EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've never gone so fast on the foil & it was like a hot knife through butter.....Hardly breached but got over-powered a few times with the gusts...Heal side was a dream & then turning downwind I was a bit reluctant on dropping my hand to put it in neutral or wasn't to sure of the timing so held on a little too long so ate **** at high speed....I must admit wing foiling you don't tend to breach on your foil like you do surfing especially using the M200....everything working together seems to keep you perfectly balanced....Can't imagine the speed on my new GL wings...
Learnt a lot...especially getting up & starting from my knees under power instead of trying to balance on my board & pulling up the wing.... Took my paddle & velcroed it into the wing for back up but a big mistake as it became a weapon with the gusts & bucked like a wild bronco....
All in all some of the most fun I've had downwinding & not tired at all...especially compared to downwind foiling using a paddle...I was ready to go again....This is going to be a game changer for those that can't downwind foil under their own steam...
I love the simplicity & packability of the Naish as it takes up no space but adds a whole new dimension to foiling...
Looking forward to downwind week in WA to get it dialed....

IWB
168 posts
10 Jan 2020 7:11PM
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Seajuice said..
Good stuff. I think I'm on the right track by cruising along & waiting for that wind gust before pumping.
It did feel better in the stronger wind and what still amazed me is how the Naish wing seems to calm & just lift up after pulling it. It feels a bit like hanging from a Hang glider as it takes off. And this is what I'll be waiting for to pull myself up higher to get the board off the water surface.


Hey Seajuice, just seeing how the wingsurf progression has been going. I finally had a chance to put a few hours on the NP Glide foil using the Large front and large rear wing and 82cm mast, in 18 to 26kts of wind using the JP Australia 7' foilboard and Ozone 4m Wasp. No shims or washers on stab used. I know you are using a very similar setup and thus wanted to get a better idea of the NP foil. I had the foil set on the board 3/4 forward where my back right bolt sits 1/2cm above the line marking on the board. Could have pushed maybe another 1 cm forward. This allowed my front foot to sit nicely where the front footstrap is.
In the upper windrange (24-26kts) minimal pumping onto the foil is needed as I found the foil to offer plenty of lift. The lower end of the windrange required a lot more pumping of foil and wing to get onto the foil. The NP Glide is a very smooth foil to ride with very little side to side movement. Through rougher seas the foil was very stable and felt very balanced. It was a little stiffer slightly more drawn out through the turns but again very smooth. The NP Glide pumps very nicely for catching bumps or when coasting through lulls etc. Hope you have had a chance to get out again and potentially managed to get foiling.

bluewave
25 posts
5 Mar 2020 5:12PM
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I'm coming from 35 years Windsurfing, i live on Maui and have a Jimmy Lewis 5'10" 105 liter, Axis 900, and 4 m Duotone... I'm 76 kgs... age 60's ... Still struggling to stand up, perhaps I need a bigger board? Like there's a used JL 6'10 125 liter I can get..., bigger foil?? In spite of living on Maui, it's challenging , so many really good guys but good info seems hard to get....

IWB
168 posts
5 Mar 2020 5:46PM
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bluewave said..
I'm coming from 35 years Windsurfing, i live on Maui and have a Jimmy Lewis 5'10" 105 liter, Axis 900, and 4 m Duotone... I'm 76 kgs... age 60's ... Still struggling to stand up, perhaps I need a bigger board? Like there's a used JL 6'10 125 liter I can get..., bigger foil?? In spite of living on Maui, it's challenging , so many really good guys but good info seems hard to get....


If you are struggling to stand up going for the larger board you mentioned should make it much easier. I'm slightly lighter and use the JP Australia 7' x28. 115l and this works great making standing a non issue. The Jp board is also great for sup foiling and windsurf foiling. Other option is to find super flat conditions if using your 5'10 board.

Piros
QLD, 5911 posts
6 Mar 2020 6:32AM
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bluewave said..
I'm coming from 35 years Windsurfing, i live on Maui and have a Jimmy Lewis 5'10" 105 liter, Axis 900, and 4 m Duotone... I'm 76 kgs... age 60's ... Still struggling to stand up, perhaps I need a bigger board? Like there's a used JL 6'10 125 liter I can get..., bigger foil?? In spite of living on Maui, it's challenging , so many really good guys but good info seems hard to get....


The rig you have is actually spot on but I understand it can be hard to stand on & start. Definitely go to the bigger board for now that will help so much. Tea bagging as we call it , stand up , fall off , stand up & fall straight off again is so energy sapping plus add the that the rag dolling of the DT 4m. ( I have one ) makes life super hard getting to your feet . Duotone are bringing out new wings that won't do this as much .

What will help right now with what you have is try a start like the prone wing foilers . Sit on the board set the wing above you head , then kneel with the wing loaded so you are gettig pulled along downwind , then up on front foot then back foot. Practice in calmer water first . Stick to the 900 wing it's what you want and for now keep your wind to 18kts min to 25kts max which should be no problem in Maui.



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"Still learning Wind wing" started by Seajuice