Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Still learning Wind wing

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Created by Seajuice 9 months ago, 20 Sep 2019
DWF
204 posts
6 Mar 2020 10:01AM
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bluewave said..
I'm coming from 35 years Windsurfing, i live on Maui and have a Jimmy Lewis 5'10" 105 liter, Axis 900, and 4 m Duotone... I'm 76 kgs... age 60's ... Still struggling to stand up, perhaps I need a bigger board? Like there's a used JL 6'10 125 liter I can get..., bigger foil?? In spite of living on Maui, it's challenging , so many really good guys but good info seems hard to get....


In what way are you struggling? Not enough wind to grunt out a knee start? Legs feel too weak to knee start? Bad balance?

warwickl
NSW, 1437 posts
6 Mar 2020 5:49PM
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DWF said..



bluewave said..
I'm coming from 35 years Windsurfing, i live on Maui and have a Jimmy Lewis 5'10" 105 liter, Axis 900, and 4 m Duotone... I'm 76 kgs... age 60's ... Still struggling to stand up, perhaps I need a bigger board? Like there's a used JL 6'10 125 liter I can get..., bigger foil?? In spite of living on Maui, it's challengingchallenging , so many really good guys but good info seems hard to get....





In what way are you struggling? Not enough wind to grunt out a knee start? Legs feel too weak to knee start? Bad balance?




Bluewave, I feel your pain and frustration .
I am 73 and knee strength is not good so started on a bigish board for my 76kg. I got out into deep water and stood up on the board the lifted the wing into position.
This method works but easy to be back on shallow water hitting the bottom so frequent frustration.
This forced me to try standing up from kneeling and this technique works. Get one foot forward, lightly pump the wind wing for a bit of board speed which increases stability then simultaneously with a bit of a gust into the wing pull yourself up while pushing down on your back foot..
Practice on land a few times.
This works for me and I never thought I would ever be able to get up from the kneeling position.
I am now on a 6ft x 28.5in 110 l Naish board which is a big boost to getting the pumping act working.
Again I never thought I would be on a board this small but it's way better.

bluewave
24 posts
6 Mar 2020 3:24PM
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Thanks for the comments so far, this is a great forum / community and source of good info. As fate would have it I found a JL 6'11" 129 liters on Craigslist for $750 US and grabbed it, I'm confident this will be a great help in my learning curve.

Everyone told me initially I would need a big floaty board for a short period, and once I got the basics I'd be able to get on a shorter board, but my stubborn side and overconfidence got the best of me and wanted the hi performance higher skill set gear now... so paying the price on that one...

Piros - Your post was spot on, especially the "rag dolling" of the DT wing, it's compounding the difficulty. We have steady breeze as everyone knows but there is chop on the water and my problem is the 105 feels a bit wobbly... I imagine once my skill level gets up a bit, with a little forward momentum it will lessen along with more water time..

DWF - It's mostly as stated above, small board chop on the water and that darn rag doll wing...

WarwickL - My knees are fine but hyperextending my ankles from kneeling for too long it what gets me, so now with the bigger board I'm hoping to find that stability and try launch from stand up position

Thanks again for all the helpful comments!

Piros
QLD, 5909 posts
6 Mar 2020 6:25PM
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I also launch from standing position I hate kneeling . I'm doing a DW foil race tomorrow and I have the Fanatic 6-3 but I'm using the 6-7 for the race as conditions are looking pretty wild . So I'm going for the bigger board for more stable starts plus the extra length helps a lot when you point straight DW flying over the bumps in front . Straight DW is the hardest but the fastest to get home , so don't worry too much going to the bigger board .

DWF
204 posts
6 Mar 2020 7:38PM
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All our crew is in their 60's and 70s'. none of us can sail on our knees for more than 10-15 meters before pain, arthritis, stiffness, etc makes it impossible to stand. So we don't mount the board until we know the wind gusts are strong enough to go knees to feet almost immediately.

hilly
WA, 5355 posts
6 Mar 2020 8:54PM
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My knees are average. I go straight to standing from prone like surfing. I hate kneeling.

flkiter
56 posts
7 Mar 2020 6:47AM
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--
This might help ya. I'll have more at the end of the month when I get back to the keys

Quickbeam
13 posts
7 Mar 2020 12:24PM
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Thanks flkiter. Excellent video. I will look forward to your next ones.

Fitzsup
NSW, 148 posts
7 Mar 2020 3:41PM
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flkiter said..
--
This might help ya. I'll have more at the end of the month when I get back to the keys


Excellent thanks flkiter

bluewave
24 posts
7 Mar 2020 12:57PM
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DWF said..
All our crew is in their 60's and 70s'. none of us can sail on our knees for more than 10-15 meters before pain, arthritis, stiffness, etc makes it impossible to stand. So we don't mount the board until we know the wind gusts are strong enough to go knees to feet almost immediately.



Haha second that - getting old 's not for sissies and still ,maintains the stoke to go out and surf, foil, windsurf whatever will keep us younger than our years...

bluewave
24 posts
7 Mar 2020 1:06PM
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Great video - what is the volume and length of your board?

bluewave
24 posts
7 Mar 2020 1:15PM
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Piros said..
I also launch from standing position I hate kneeling . I'm doing a DW foil race tomorrow and I have the Fanatic 6-3 but I'm using the 6-7 for the race as conditions are looking pretty wild . So I'm going for the bigger board for more stable starts plus the extra length helps a lot when you point straight DW flying over the bumps in front . Straight DW is the hardest but the fastest to get home , so don't worry too much going to the bigger board .



I did get the 6'11" and it while it is bigger, it's not like shockingly bigger, it was too windy today ....when it's "only"19-22 knots we call it "Maui Glass"...

flkiter
56 posts
7 Mar 2020 1:42PM
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Thanks guys for the positive feedback. That was a 5'1" by DWF. It's 90 liters. I was on a 6 meter F1, Axis 1020 standard fuselage and 400 rear with 45 cm mast. It was blowing about 10-12 knots. I'm going to touch on a few other ways to get going and using a bigger board with starting with your feet more parallel. Any feedback or stuff people want to learn, let me know and I'll try to make a lesson vid.

Quickbeam
13 posts
7 Mar 2020 2:50PM
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flkiter said..
Thanks guys for the positive feedback. That was a 5'1" by DWF. It's 90 liters. I was on a 6 meter F1, Axis 1020 standard fuselage and 400 rear with 45 cm mast. It was blowing about 10-12 knots. I'm going to touch on a few other ways to get going and using a bigger board with starting with your feet more parallel. Any feedback or stuff people want to learn, let me know and I'll try to make a lesson vid.



If you get the time, maybe a video showing proper technique for tacking while on the foil.

emmafoils
167 posts
7 Mar 2020 5:01PM
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flkiter said..
Thanks guys for the positive feedback. That was a 5'1" by DWF. It's 90 liters. I was on a 6 meter F1, Axis 1020 standard fuselage and 400 rear with 45 cm mast. It was blowing about 10-12 knots. I'm going to touch on a few other ways to get going and using a bigger board with starting with your feet more parallel. Any feedback or stuff people want to learn, let me know and I'll try to make a lesson vid.


Great job on the video. It looked like that 90 liter board was pretty stable when you kneeled on it (without any lift from the wing). You look about 75kg? Why would a bigger volume board be helpful if one is able to kneel start? Thanks

flkiter
56 posts
7 Mar 2020 9:26PM
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emmafoils said..

flkiter said..
Thanks guys for the positive feedback. That was a 5'1" by DWF. It's 90 liters. I was on a 6 meter F1, Axis 1020 standard fuselage and 400 rear with 45 cm mast. It was blowing about 10-12 knots. I'm going to touch on a few other ways to get going and using a bigger board with starting with your feet more parallel. Any feedback or stuff people want to learn, let me know and I'll try to make a lesson vid.



Great job on the video. It looked like that 90 liter board was pretty stable when you kneeled on it (without any lift from the wing). You look about 75kg? Why would a bigger volume board be helpful if one is able to kneel start? Thanks


Thank you, I'm 72 kg and the 90 liters is great for my weight. I can even sup it in perfect conditions. The board is 26 inches wide and a dedicated wing board. So if I'm just going winging and conditions are good for this board then I'm on this. Now I also have a 5'8" 115 liter sup that is 29 inches wide so if it's funky wind, off shore wind or directly on shore with washing machine conditions, then I'll use the sup. The extra liters and width give me the stability to get going in bad conditions. So some extra liters and width helps a ton as the conditions start to get harder. I'm also goofy foot and the bigger board lets me get up switch easily. I wouldn't go smaller than 5' with a kneel start board. I also wouldn't go longer than 6'6" for a winging board, just makes it harder to counter balance the board and the longer it is the harder the jibes are and longer the mast needed. I'm a big believer in people need to get gear for their conditions. What works for a grom in Hawaii isn't going to work for a older guy in Florida. So sometimes it isn't the rider but the set up.

emmafoils
167 posts
8 Mar 2020 3:11AM
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Thanks for the info.

I am pulling the trigger on the wind ding. 5 meter F-one wing, 5 foot 10 inch (90 L) F-one Wing specific board, Armstrong 2400 and 1600 with 72 cm mast. I am 70 kg, solid kite foiler. No surfing experience. Should be interesting. Will report back.

simonp
185 posts
8 Mar 2020 3:45AM
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emmafoils said..
Thanks for the info.

I am pulling the trigger on the wind ding. 5 meter F-one wing, 5 foot 10 inch (90 L) F-one Wing specific board, Armstrong 2400 and 1600 with 72 cm mast. I am 70 kg, solid kite foiler. No surfing experience. Should be interesting. Will report back.


That should be a perfect setup.
Mine is similar; I'm 74 kg and using a 5m F-one Swing, 91 litre Starboard and a J-Shapes custom.
I made the mistake of starting with a 4.2 Swing which needed at least 15 knots to get going. The 5m has a much better low end, about 12 knots to get foiling. Wing-foiling is a piece of cake if you have kite foiling or windsurfing experience.

simonp
185 posts
8 Mar 2020 3:45AM
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emmafoils said..
Thanks for the info.

I am pulling the trigger on the wind ding. 5 meter F-one wing, 5 foot 10 inch (90 L) F-one Wing specific board, Armstrong 2400 and 1600 with 72 cm mast. I am 70 kg, solid kite foiler. No surfing experience. Should be interesting. Will report back.


That should be a perfect setup.
Mine is similar; I'm 74 kg and using a 5m F-one Swing, 91 litre Starboard and a J-Shapes custom.
I made the mistake of starting with a 4.2 Swing which needed at least 15 knots to get going. The 5m has a much better low end, about 12 knots to get foiling. Wing-foiling is a piece of cake if you have kite foiling or windsurfing experience.

bluewave
24 posts
8 Mar 2020 2:31PM
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flkiter said..

emmafoils said..


flkiter said..
Thanks guys for the positive feedback. That was a 5'1" by DWF. It's 90 liters. I was on a 6 meter F1, Axis 1020 standard fuselage and 400 rear with 45 cm mast. It was blowing about 10-12 knots. I'm going to touch on a few other ways to get going and using a bigger board with starting with your feet more parallel. Any feedback or stuff people want to learn, let me know and I'll try to make a lesson vid.




Great job on the video. It looked like that 90 liter board was pretty stable when you kneeled on it (without any lift from the wing). You look about 75kg? Why would a bigger volume board be helpful if one is able to kneel start? Thanks



Thank you, I'm 72 kg and the 90 liters is great for my weight. I can even sup it in perfect conditions. The board is 26 inches wide and a dedicated wing board. So if I'm just going winging and conditions are good for this board then I'm on this. Now I also have a 5'8" 115 liter sup that is 29 inches wide so if it's funky wind, off shore wind or directly on shore with washing machine conditions, then I'll use the sup. The extra liters and width give me the stability to get going in bad conditions. So some extra liters and width helps a ton as the conditions start to get harder. I'm also goofy foot and the bigger board lets me get up switch easily. I wouldn't go smaller than 5' with a kneel start board. I also wouldn't go longer than 6'6" for a winging board, just makes it harder to counter balance the board and the longer it is the harder the jibes are and longer the mast needed. I'm a big believer in people need to get gear for their conditions. What works for a grom in Hawaii isn't going to work for a older guy in Florida. So sometimes it isn't the rider but the set up.


FLKiter, great info...I used to live in Jupiter, FL....long time ago...Maybe you could say a little bit about the relationship of board length, benefits of shorter vs longer, and thickness and volume ... I got a 6'11' for the sole purpose of learning, and the when I get the hang of things I have the 5'11 105...or since I'm on Maui I could get a custom 6'2" from the master himself.....

StephenZ
VIC, 16 posts
8 Mar 2020 10:40PM
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simonp said..

emmafoils said..
Thanks for the info.

I am pulling the trigger on the wind ding. 5 meter F-one wing, 5 foot 10 inch (90 L) F-one Wing specific board, Armstrong 2400 and 1600 with 72 cm mast. I am 70 kg, solid kite foiler. No surfing experience. Should be interesting. Will report back.



That should be a perfect setup.
Mine is similar; I'm 74 kg and using a 5m F-one Swing, 91 litre Starboard and a J-Shapes custom.
I made the mistake of starting with a 4.2 Swing which needed at least 15 knots to get going. The 5m has a much better low end, about 12 knots to get foiling. Wing-foiling is a piece of cake if you have kite foiling or windsurfing experience.


I made exactly the same mistake.
I've had a few sessions on the 4.2 and it's not quite enough for me. I think I need a solid 20 knots at my beginner level to get it foiling. And then it becomes a bit rougher and choppier.
Made the mistake of thinking I could use the same size as I do for kitefoiling.
Have ordered the 5 as well. I'm sure I'll still end up needing/using the 4.2.
Btw what's the difference between the 4.2 and the 5 top end?

flkiter
56 posts
9 Mar 2020 10:52AM
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bluewave said..

flkiter said..


emmafoils said..



flkiter said..
Thanks guys for the positive feedback. That was a 5'1" by DWF. It's 90 liters. I was on a 6 meter F1, Axis 1020 standard fuselage and 400 rear with 45 cm mast. It was blowing about 10-12 knots. I'm going to touch on a few other ways to get going and using a bigger board with starting with your feet more parallel. Any feedback or stuff people want to learn, let me know and I'll try to make a lesson vid.





Great job on the video. It looked like that 90 liter board was pretty stable when you kneeled on it (without any lift from the wing). You look about 75kg? Why would a bigger volume board be helpful if one is able to kneel start? Thanks




Thank you, I'm 72 kg and the 90 liters is great for my weight. I can even sup it in perfect conditions. The board is 26 inches wide and a dedicated wing board. So if I'm just going winging and conditions are good for this board then I'm on this. Now I also have a 5'8" 115 liter sup that is 29 inches wide so if it's funky wind, off shore wind or directly on shore with washing machine conditions, then I'll use the sup. The extra liters and width give me the stability to get going in bad conditions. So some extra liters and width helps a ton as the conditions start to get harder. I'm also goofy foot and the bigger board lets me get up switch easily. I wouldn't go smaller than 5' with a kneel start board. I also wouldn't go longer than 6'6" for a winging board, just makes it harder to counter balance the board and the longer it is the harder the jibes are and longer the mast needed. I'm a big believer in people need to get gear for their conditions. What works for a grom in Hawaii isn't going to work for a older guy in Florida. So sometimes it isn't the rider but the set up.



FLKiter, great info...I used to live in Jupiter, FL....long time ago...Maybe you could say a little bit about the relationship of board length, benefits of shorter vs longer, and thickness and volume ... I got a 6'11' for the sole purpose of learning, and the when I get the hang of things I have the 5'11 105...or since I'm on Maui I could get a custom 6'2" from the master himself.....


Hey bluewave,
The longer the board, less prone you are to stuff the nose on water starts and you have a bigger sweet spot to balance on to get to your feet. Keep in mind tho that if you're too far forward when you go to stand up that even tho the nose of the boards isn't going under water, the foil pointing down will cause the board to stall. So be closer to the tail before standing up if it's doing that. A longer board gives more counter weight to the foil making it need more power to get onto foil also you can't leverage the foil like you can a short board. The longer board also makes turns in waves harder due to the nose catching the water, a longer mast is needed. More liters and width helps for stability even if the board is short and wide.

Now the longer board will take more force to turn up wind so it'll head down wind easier and get the speed up to get you into foil. So when you first go to a shorter board, keep that in mind and make sure to go down wind or the board will shoot up wind and the wing will pull you down wind and off the board. That 5'11" will be awesome for ya once you learn. I have to warn you tho that if you get onto a 5' board in the waves after you learn, you will not want to be on the 5'11". I sup/wing a 5'8" and then wing a 5'1" but, when I teach I'm on all different size stuff even 8' boards and everything 6' and bigger feels like I'm on a boat. Hope that info helps.

emmafoils
167 posts
10 Mar 2020 5:42AM
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First session on 80 L board (I am 70kg) and was unable to progress beyond kneeling or straddling. Second session on 90 L Board (5-10, F-0ne Rocket Wing Board) was much easier. Able to ride on strong side comfortably (couldn't get foiling). 5 m F-1 wing in around 13 knots with 1800 cm F-1 foil.

Each attempt better than previous. flkiter video was very helpful.

StephenZ
VIC, 16 posts
10 Mar 2020 10:53AM
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First time up on the foil yesterday : )
Needed all 20 knots that came up to get up on the f-one 4.2.
Time on the foil was brief, but managed a couple times in both directions, and tried but failed to jibe.
What a feeling, it's like the stoke of getting up on the kite foil all over.
Then wind dropped back a few knots and couldn't get back up.
Shoulders sore today.
Looking forward to getting the 5.

Gorgo
VIC, 4397 posts
10 Mar 2020 2:17PM
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StephenZ said..
First time up on the foil yesterday : )
....


Were you out at Hampton?

Stretchy
WA, 592 posts
10 Mar 2020 2:17PM
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Im an experienced windsurfer, now a novice windfoiler, now curious about windwinging. Im windfoiling on a massive 1m wide 180L formula board with a Starboard Supercruiser foil (Deep Tuttle connection). I'm 95kg, so thinking of a 6m wing as once it hits 18+kts I'll be on my windsurfer.

So my question is would my super tanker formula board work for windwinging while Im learning or is it just silly?

hilly
WA, 5355 posts
10 Mar 2020 2:34PM
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Stretchy said..
Im an experienced windsurfer, now a novice windfoiler, now curious about windwinging. Im windfoiling on a massive 1m wide 180L formula board with a Starboard Supercruiser foil (Deep Tuttle connection). I'm 95kg, so thinking of a 6m wing as once it hits 18+kts I'll be on my windsurfer.

So my question is would my super tanker formula board work for windwinging while Im learning or is it just silly?



Anything will work. That might feel a bit ungainly when up on the foil but you should be able to learn the basics.
You will need a big front wing about 2000cm2.

StephenZ
VIC, 16 posts
10 Mar 2020 5:43PM
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Gorgo said..

Were you out at Hampton?


No, St Kilda for now. I don't expect to be anywhere near Hampton until I'm through the walk of shame stage
How about you, you giving it a go?

Gorgo
VIC, 4397 posts
16 Mar 2020 12:25PM
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Still watching and kite foiling.

I've got a Sunova crossover and a GoFoil Iwa. Waiting for Switch to bring out a wing. Based on their kite prices they should be $700-800.

There's a wing foiling crew that go out from Edwards St ramp near the Red Bluff on any kind of southerly. There's sand bars inshore and protected from the swell. You get quite long rolling swell from a fair way out. The early adopters are improving quickly.

StephenZ
VIC, 16 posts
16 Mar 2020 4:44PM
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Gorgo said..
Still watching and kite foiling.

I've got a Sunova crossover and a GoFoil Iwa. Waiting for Switch to bring out a wing. Based on their kite prices they should be $700-800.

There's a wing foiling crew that go out from Edwards St ramp near the Red Bluff on any kind of southerly. There's sand bars inshore and protected from the swell. You get quite long rolling swell from a fair way out. The early adopters are improving quickly.


I tried to hold out until prices started coming down, but in the end my curiosity got the better of me first!
Look forward to getting down there some time .



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"Still learning Wind wing" started by Seajuice