Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Time to lubricate bolts!

Reply
Created by Seajuice A week ago, 6 Feb 2019
Seajuice
NSW, 278 posts
6 Feb 2019 10:54AM
Thumbs Up

We all know that we should pull apart, rinse & lubricate our foils after every session. But I don't. But I always rinse over foil & board with a container of freshwater.
I know the painful & frustrating experience of having to try & loosen seized bolts! Sometimes even having to try & drill out bolts that have had their heads snapped off. And I don't intend on doing this to my foil!
So usually after a few continuous sessions Over a weekend or roster days I will pull my foil apart, rinse & lubricate with white lithium grease spray it stays white for a while & doesn't blacken like WD 40 & other oil.
A good warning that lets me know when my foil needs maintenance is when I hear a clicking or cracking noise when the bolts are tightened & or loosened. It means the lubrication has run dry & may have dirt or sand deposits.
When I hear this I will never tighten the bolts any further as it tells me the bolt has bitten into the mating surface & may need more force to undo. This usually doesn't happen when the bolts are newly lubricated I am then more confident in tightening the bolts fully.

JB
NSW, 1923 posts
Site Sponsor
6 Feb 2019 12:00PM
Thumbs Up

Every session would be the perfect scenario. My motto is, 3rd day after a session whether there is session in between or not, the foil gets pulled apart and rinsed off and bolts soaked in hot water.

This means, if I foil Monday, my foil is getting washed Thursday whether I ride Tues or wed or not.

I do not use any anti seize of oils, my ensuring my foil is clean and the bolts are clean I have no issues. I have had more foil/bolt issues with anti seize than without. I always make sure the bolts and components are dried off before re-assembling, and I also run the bolt threads against a rag with the drill to clean the threads thoroughly.

IMHO, a side from washing dis-mantled every time, this is the best measure to keep your foil ready for every session.

Anti Seize products can lead to a false sense of security, and it is a very bad day when it lets you down and you miss an epic session. (this is just my opinion).

Play safe and keep it clean.

regards.

JB

Scotty Mac
SA, 1827 posts
6 Feb 2019 12:53PM
Thumbs Up

That's one thing i never have to bother about with the go foils.

Windgenuity
NSW, 208 posts
Site Sponsor
6 Feb 2019 2:14PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Scotty Mac said..
That's one thing i never have to bother about with the go foils.


You just need to bring you mallet with you every where if you plan to change wings (assuming your wings will fit )

LOL. Nice one Scotty.

JB

murf
SA, 409 posts
6 Feb 2019 2:04PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Scotty Mac said..
That's one thing i never have to bother about with the go foils.


Your foils slowly come undone by themselves

Scotty Mac
SA, 1827 posts
6 Feb 2019 4:06PM
Thumbs Up

Na JB the 280 stays on for days and days..... think we have had 4 days in a row here of 15 to 20 knots and another few more to go....
I leave it connected to the board and everything. No time to waste undoing silly screws
Yes Murf when you leave the go foil togehter for a week you need to keep the screws tight. Pumpy pumpy

Ha ha yes a mallet JB! What do you have for your foil mechano set? An electric screw driver (special buzzy tool!)

You guys when your foils grow up I bet they want to be all carbon........ ha ha.

Put pressure back on Go Foil. They are a bit over priced no doubt.

Aluminium is for coke cans...........

colas
2965 posts
6 Feb 2019 4:19PM
Thumbs Up

Just use Tef-Gel. This stuff is fantastic, both to isolate from chemical (salt) and physical (electrolytic) corrosion, but it also acts as a threadlocker (aka loctite). Foils vibrate, if you just lubricate the bolts, they will come apart, and foiling with a wobbly foil is instant hell.

toppleover
QLD, 1450 posts
6 Feb 2019 6:25PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Windgenuity said..


Scotty Mac said..
That's one thing i never have to bother about with the go foils.




You just need to bring you mallet with you every where if you plan to change wings (assuming your wings will fit )

LOL. Nice one Scotty.

JB



The mallet is what put me off getting a GoFoil but each to their own.

DWF
67 posts
6 Feb 2019 6:43PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
colas said..
Just use Tef-Gel. This stuff is fantastic, both to isolate from chemical (salt) and physical (electrolytic) corrosion, but it also acts as a threadlocker (aka loctite). Foils vibrate, if you just lubricate the bolts, they will come apart, and foiling with a wobbly foil is instant hell.


Listen to this man

I've left foils assembled 6 months with lots of tef-gel slobbered on everything. No problems when disassembled.

tef-gel is sticky messy stuff, but it works.

Clamsmasha
WA, 15 posts
6 Feb 2019 7:00PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Windgenuity said..

Scotty Mac said..
That's one thing i never have to bother about with the go foils.



You just need to bring you mallet with you every where if you plan to change wings (assuming your wings will fit )

LOL. Nice one Scotty.

JB


The horror.

azymuth
WA, 540 posts
6 Feb 2019 9:38PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
foilSURFmachines said..



colas said..
Just use Tef-Gel. This stuff is fantastic, both to isolate from chemical (salt) and physical (electrolytic) corrosion, but it also acts as a threadlocker (aka loctite). Foils vibrate, if you just lubricate the bolts, they will come apart, and foiling with a wobbly foil is instant hell.





Listen to this man

I've left foils assembled 6 months with lots of tef-gel slobbered on everything. No problems when disassembled.

tef-gel is sticky messy stuff, but it works.




I agree - I've left Naish Thrust and Slingshot Hoverglide foils assembled for about a month at a time for the past year, with no problem disassembling.

I don't rinse in fresh water after use, but I make sure the threads and mating surfaces of the bolt/screw heads have a generous coating of Tef-Gel.

Magic stuff (so far)

Beasho
118 posts
6 Feb 2019 10:15PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Scotty Mac said..
That's one thing i never have to bother about with the go foils.


I have been a GoFoil user for nearly 2 years. I didn't even know that there was an issue with Bolts getting stuck.

Carbon is the future. Just think of windsurfing. How long since anyone used an aluminum mast? They were the rage when everything was fiberglass.

I came from a freshwater windsurfing background. We rinsed our sails, cleaned things off otherwise they would mildew. When I moved to saltwater shores we just started rolling our stuff up. I haven't rinsed anything off for 20 years. Ride it hard and put it away wet. Carbon, stainless, brass and epoxy. No problem.

The sport is evolving, Foiling will get there, and for the better all our current gear will be obsolete.

Gorgo
VIC, 4092 posts
7 Feb 2019 8:04AM
Thumbs Up

Carbon sandwich construction with stainless inserts and bolts. Hundreds of hours of hard use. Multiple impacts with sandy bottoms. A couple of bumps off rocks. Zero maintenance. Zero failures.

That's not strictly true. I fill, sand and paint the odd scratch or chip to the wings. Maybe twice a year. I replace the hex head bolts a couple of times a year as the hex gets a bit chewed out. Going to try Torx screws to see if they work better.

I disassemble after use and give things a quick wipe with a damp chamois cloth before putting it in the bags. That's mainly to protect my car from salt and stuff dripping.

It worries me that aluminium is becoming the de facto standard for foiling components. I suspect manufacturers are building down to a price to get market share. That makes business sense and I guess it develops participation. I'm not sure how good it is for the users of the gear. The premium for quality carbon products is not that great.

Scotty Mac
SA, 1827 posts
7 Feb 2019 8:00AM
Thumbs Up

Hey all before everyone gets bent out of shape (aluminuim pun!) I totally agree with Gorgo, aluminium is great for getting the price down. If i had of bought later on when theres was more gear choices I would have bought axis. They def look best performance vs value for money but hey I am grateful for Alex Aguera and the work they have done to help make foiling a everyday sport. And all carbon is good.
I LOVE DOWNWIND FOILING!

DWF
67 posts
7 Feb 2019 5:57AM
Thumbs Up

Carbon masts might never be the future because most weigh the same as their aluminum equal.

One manufacturer at Surf Expo actually told me they were releasing a carbon mast, just to say they had one. They didn't expect to sell hardly any because the weight is the same as their aluminum version.

The same applies to some of the fuselages out there. Carbon is just as heavy as aluminum. But not all. Depends on the design. Carbon needs to be hollow or foam core, otherwise similar weight to aluminum versions.

With aluminum it is no big deal to offer many different mast lengths. Giving everyone the option to buy just the right length for them.

To be continued I'm afraid.

murf
SA, 409 posts
7 Feb 2019 10:43AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Scotty Mac said..
Hey all before everyone gets bent out of shape (aluminuim pun!) I totally agree with Gorgo, aluminium is great for getting the price down. If i had of bought later on when theres was more gear choices I would have bought axis. They def look best performance vs value for money but hey I am grateful for Alex Aguera and the work they have done to help make foiling a everyday sport. And all carbon is good.
I LOVE DOWNWIND FOILING!


Scotty Mac said..
"Hey all before everyone gets bent out of shape (aluminuim pun!)"

Clamsmasha
WA, 15 posts
7 Feb 2019 8:13AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
foilSURFmachines said..
Carbon masts might never be the future because most weigh the same as their aluminum equal.

One manufacturer at Surf Expo actually told me they were releasing a carbon mast, just to say they had one. They didn't expect to sell hardly any because the weight is the same as their aluminum version.

The same applies to some of the fuselages out there. Carbon is just as heavy as aluminum. But not all. Depends on the design. Carbon needs to be hollow or foam core, otherwise similar weight to aluminum versions.

With aluminum it is no big deal to offer many different mast lengths. Giving everyone the option to buy just the right length for them.

To be continued I'm afraid.



There are benefits to Al as you say, having a selection of mast lengths nice and cheap etc, but carbon is almost half the weight of Al.

Most Al masts are hollow, whereas the carbon masts are commonly solid. They can be made hollow or chambered, but I don't think that fits in with the the cheap/fast/many business model.

Aluminium and its alloys are have densities around 2.7-2.8.
Prepreg carbon fibre is 1.5. Adding it's amazing strength etc, there is a good scope to produce a very light and strong setup.


i picked up a Moses foil a while back.....it was like a feather compared to the SS next to it. And priced accordingly......

Seajuice
NSW, 278 posts
7 Feb 2019 6:37PM
Thumbs Up

Before we all get to light on with foils. Sometimes lighter is not better. Depends on the use. I can understand with carbon boards swing weight.
I can also understand with foil carry weight. But does it make that much difference when riding? If not, why pay hundreds to a thousand dollars more?
Also, all materials can be different. I heard carbon isn't all the same & aluminium isn't all the same. So far I have found that one aluminium mast can bend quite easily, (Chinese aluminium). The other one hasn't as yet. And what if your board & foil gets a side on large wave smash. Will a carbon mast snap or rip out of its track mount? Or would you rather just have a bent mast?
Also heavier keel weight on a SUP helps with stability in choppy water. I dont think a very light foil would. All good on prone, sail boards & kites. Not sure on Down winders.
Just something for us to think about.

colas
2965 posts
7 Feb 2019 3:57PM
Thumbs Up

On the carbon/alu, I do not know. I am a long time windsurfer, so I was "alu? no way!". But having had both carbon and alu foils from the same maker, I do not know anymore.

various pro/cons:

- the carbon foil was not much lighter than the carbon one. Only 15% less weight, and the alu had heavier wings (half carbon / half glass, and more volume). But it costed more than 3 times more... and has now no resale value.
- corrosion may not be an actual issue, as the carbon and alu parts do not actually touch, thanks to outer layers of paints (fuz) and glass (wing). Gong has some guinea pig foils they never rinse nor disassemble as durability experiments (but with Tef Gel), and so far no corrosion appeared after one year. But it is too early to say so to customers.
- being hollow is actually stronger than solid shapes
- hollow masts are a pain for the water they store in
- high end foil windsurfers (Antoine Albeau) also use alu masts
- carbon foils could get down in price once the market stabilizes around few makers and models, with the mass market effect

So, I don't know. My guess is that alu foils will solve the water-in-the-mast and corrosion issues and become the norm, and carbon will stay for the prototypes and high end expensive offers.

tomooh
149 posts
7 Feb 2019 4:25PM
Thumbs Up

My takuma alloy mast was sealed and filled with what I thought was carbon but maybe was just black plastic? It seems silly that my new np mast is hollow and fills up with water all the time which drips out on the car roof unless you disassemble it to drain.

Seajuice
NSW, 278 posts
7 Feb 2019 8:20PM
Thumbs Up

Good points Colas. Good to hear you have some foil experiments regarding corrosion.
tomooh. Good point also. I hate having salt water dripping on car. Not from my foil though. I pull it apart. But had saltwater dripping from my Hobie kayak when I used to car top it. Got trailer now.
Maybe the hollow masts should be foam filled. Wouldn't be hard to do for a DIY with that spray in expandable foam. As long as its compatible with aluminium or carbon etc.

Seajuice
NSW, 278 posts
7 Feb 2019 8:41PM
Thumbs Up

Good points Colas. Good to hear you have some foil experiments regarding corrosion.
tomooh. Good point also. I hate having salt water dripping on car. Not from my foil though. I pull it apart. But had saltwater dripping from my Hobie kayak when I used to car top it. Got trailer now.
Maybe the hollow masts should be foam filled. Wouldn't be hard to do for a DIY with that spray in expandable foam. As long as its compatible with aluminium or carbon etc. And doesn't absorb water.
Oh & check out the difference in price between tef gel & white lithium grease. Big difference. But I suppose if the tef gel is just specifically used for foil bolts you wouldn't use much. But if you had white lithium grease that you use for other water craft & jobs then so much cheaper.

icharus
43 posts
7 Feb 2019 8:08PM
Thumbs Up

2 things

1 phillips or x head screws were designed for automation - NOT for going in and out again repeatedly.
2 aluminium threads are not really fit for purpose - when the purpose is to be used and reused over and over. Especially not the grade of Aluminium that lends itself to extrusion.


These are just engineering principles.

However - they seem to last ok especially if you use something like tefgel - but they are not going to last for ever.

Carbon is of course much better - but you gets what you pays for.

I really need to get some foam into my masts to stop salt water sitting in them and make rinsing more effective.

DWF
67 posts
7 Feb 2019 8:55PM
Thumbs Up

Spray foam the NP mast.

Yeah, there are some light carbon masts, but more are close to aluminum in weight. Especially the ones made really stiff. For example, the Horue foil is really light, but the mast flexes like crazy. The manufacturers are starting to figure out the stiffest mast wins! So best performing carbon masts are close to aluminum in weight. Solid carbon, so many layers, so expensive being solid carbon. Carbon masts from Naish ~$900 and this un-named brand at Surf Expo $900. Axis aluminum 75cm mast is $73.

GoFoil released a stiffer mast, but so far it's only one model, the tallest Tuttle. Imagine how cheap and easy this design improvement is with Aluminum. A simple new extrusion die, dirt cheap, and every mast length gets the improvements.

Like I said, to be continued, not so simple....$73 versus $900

mattllew
23 posts
7 Feb 2019 9:30PM
Thumbs Up

I cant be the only one wanting to see an aluminium mast extrusion that allows a piece of rubber/HDPE to be slotted seamlessly into the leading edge. The guy who designs for MFC put some sketches of something similar on his instagram recently. First brand to make a mast with a leading edge not made of rock hard aluminium gets my money.

icharus
43 posts
8 Feb 2019 1:44AM
Thumbs Up

my shins agree with you - I think I have 4 big welts and one that needed stitches!



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling


"Time to lubricate bolts!" started by Seajuice