Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Windwing on a longboard

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Created by rgmacca 3 months ago, 14 Jun 2019
rgmacca
79 posts
14 Jun 2019 3:55AM
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Hi
ive never foiled, did not fancy getting caught up in one in surf.

How much fun would windwing or similar be on a longboard (no foil), can you go up wind, use them in surf, play about. Or are they a gimmick on non foil board.
Are they mainly designed for use with foils, if so could you learn to foil with one.
Thanks for input.

Clamsmasha
WA, 94 posts
14 Jun 2019 5:14AM
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I'm pretty sure I've seen a vid of Robbie Naish on a plan old SUP. Seemed to work okay but wasn't very exciting.

rgmacca
79 posts
14 Jun 2019 6:54AM
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Yes I think I saw that one, just cruzing.

juandesooka
258 posts
14 Jun 2019 10:42AM
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Yeah seen that too. Question is if you could get upwind and back to the take off spot. Then surf it from there. Repeat. If you have a spot that's good in sideshore wind, you could surf without paddling maybe. (All speculation ...I haven't tried one yet)

Gorgo
VIC, 4266 posts
14 Jun 2019 1:13PM
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It seems to me the key is that if you can get into a semi-standing position on a stationary board then you can pull on some power from the wing then get up and moving. Once you're moving you're fairly stable and can do things. I experimented with this recently with a SUP, foil and kite.

If you can stay on top of your longboard while it is stationary and manipulate the wing then I can't see any reason why you can't explore doing something useful with it. I learned to kitesurf 20 years ago on a longboard with a 4m buggy kite. It's not all that different in configuration to a wind wing and longboard (except the buggy kite would not water relaunch).

My hope is that I can take my SUP out with a wind wing in winds that are not fun to SUP surf in. Winds that blow me away from the peak, or blow me back as I try to catch waves. I would be happy as long as I can cruise around in position and line up a wave to ride.

I have seen windsurfers doing a similar thing at Point Danger. They slog out on floaty boards, turn in front of a swell, catch the wave and have some fun.

juandesooka
258 posts
14 Jun 2019 11:54AM
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Yeah gorgo. Good plan. It'll be esasier than the kite sup thing....I found it challenging not to drift under the kite and slack lines. With wing on a longboard , could maybe start kneeling until get a little speed.

colas
3370 posts
14 Jun 2019 2:22PM
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Gorgo said..
I have seen windsurfers doing a similar thing at Point Danger. They slog out on floaty boards, turn in front of a swell, catch the wave and have some fun.


I have done it for years. It is fun, but it requires specific wind directions, and wide open waves. With a sail, you are very limited in where you can go, and it is hard to get back to the peak, stay here to wait for the set, and adjust your placement for take off. It can be frustrating as you see the set incoming and realize that with a paddle you could just go straight to where you need to be for takeoff, but the limited options with the sail (cant go upwind) means you will miss the set.

So you need to be typically in cross-shore winds to avoid frustrations.

rgmacca
79 posts
19 Jun 2019 7:47AM
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Anyone manage to go up wind with a wing combo? Was thinking those flat days then no fun with a paddle as to windy. Can you engage a rail or just rely on the fin and length of board.

colas
3370 posts
19 Jun 2019 12:04PM
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rgmacca said..
Anyone manage to go up wind with a wing combo? Was thinking those flat days then no fun with a paddle as to windy. Can you engage a rail or just rely on the fin and length of board.


You can go upwind, of course.
But it is sailing, so you cannot go where you want, you have to plan your course.

Frankly, I don't see people using wings without a foil after the learning phases. Slogging around is not fun, and if you get in enough winds to attempt planing, the strain on the arms should become an hindrance.

knatti
1 posts
10 Sep 2019 4:20AM
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Hello

I am also just testing with my wing and built myself these fins out of plywood.
Without them I couldn't go upwind (ISUP is disigned for the river). The only thing is that after a while both start to lean in one direction (like on the last picture, the other one is already under the board). Next time I will try it with a ratchet to get it tighter.

But as colas already wrote, it is ok for testing the wing because you dont have to worry about balance. As soon as I will get my foilboard I dont think I will be using these fins much anymore (or only if I go together with my son).

And thanks to all in this forum --> great Information for beginners.






IanInca
30 posts
Tuesday , 10 Sep 2019 5:34AM
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It's definitely fun. Took me around 5 sessions to manage to go upwind and stay upwind. That's with no wind knowledge or experience, if you have prior of either you could probably do it straight away.

A tip for anyone like me - Feet facing forward and pointing your hips to were you want to go. Steer with your hips and not the wing.

On one session a wave was breaking off the harbour wall, really full not properly breaking. I was on a Jp 10'6 sup, winged over, turned 90 degrees (stepped back turn) and flew with the wave. Really good fun and got some great speed.

I will learn to use a foil with the wing, but the wing will definitely still be used with the sup. I will put my kids on it with me (very safe), Id do a downwinder on it, do a journey on it and play in surf.

It's fairly physical, after an hour I'm bust but thats been in pretty decent wind 15 to 30 knots. I like that feeling though, the same as having a decent paddle or sup surf.. Spent but happy..

juandesooka
258 posts
Tuesday , 10 Sep 2019 5:52AM
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Nicely done both of you, good to hear first hand reports.

Flat water non-foil use: optimal board might be a wide learner windsurfer with retractable dagger board. Put it down to get upwind, pull it up to play in the waves back.

Physical aspects: I am maybe 8 sessions in, with 1 or 2 good ones -- main problem has been doing it in sub-15 kts. Once up on foil, all the weight comes off your arms, wing feels like it is pulling more up than forward, and there's very little arm strain. But before getting up on foil, I have found it really hard on the body. Arms, shoulders, and the muscle along the rib cage side....thought I was going to rip them out last session attempt. I recall similar in early days of kiting, but especially wind surfing, not really knowing the efficiencies yet, so trying to overpower it into submission. All in all, has been harder than I expected, eating some humble pie. mmm mmm

IanInca
30 posts
Tuesday , 10 Sep 2019 6:17AM
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juandesooka said..
Nicely done both of you, good to hear first hand reports.

Flat water non-foil use: optimal board might be a wide learner windsurfer with retractable dagger board. Put it down to get upwind, pull it up to play in the waves back.

Physical aspects: I am maybe 8 sessions in, with 1 or 2 good ones -- main problem has been doing it in sub-15 kts. Once up on foil, all the weight comes off your arms, wing feels like it is pulling more up than forward, and there's very little arm strain. But before getting up on foil, I have found it really hard on the body. Arms, shoulders, and the muscle along the rib cage side....thought I was going to rip them out last session attempt. I recall similar in early days of kiting, but especially wind surfing, not really knowing the efficiencies yet, so trying to overpower it into submission. All in all, has been harder than I expected, eating some humble pie. mmm mmm


That's also interesting as I'm hopefully going to progress onto the foil. I have seen a few boys try the foil and wing but they have struggled initially to gain enough momentum to fly. As im not in a massive hurry I want to feel completely at home with the wing b4 the foil.

One of the attraction to the wing and the foil (and wing/sup) was potentially using it in lighter winds. I'm hoping 10 to 15 knots will be doable on the 5m, if not the 7m will be a purchase..

I'm sure some of that pie will be headed my way soon!!!!

juandesooka
258 posts
Tuesday , 10 Sep 2019 6:41AM
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IanInca said..

One of the attraction to the wing and the foil (and wing/sup) was potentially using it in lighter winds. I'm hoping 10 to 15 knots will be doable on the 5m, if not the 7m will be a purchase..

I'm sure some of that pie will be headed my way soon!!!!


I have the 5m Gong and so far towards 20 seems to be the ticket to getting up on foil. I suspect I will get this down to 15kt with practice, but below that, it may just be the pros and other freaks who can find speed from near nothing.

I am considering trading in my 5m for a 7m ... mostly because my interest is doing this on light days, when there's waves to play in. When it's above 15kt, I will likely kite instead. So if a 7m gets me out 10-15kt that would be excellent. But, talking to more experienced folks, the bigger the wing, the heavier it is, and that can apparently become an issue in light winds.

I also believe there's going to be a shake down in the industry, where performance and build quality will start to become clearer. 10 brands may shrink to 3-4. Or maybe we will see 3 echelons: highest quality $$$, then medium "good enough", and then the cheapies for the lake punters. Right now we have some price variation, but it's not yet based on quality. So we have to guess from user reports and posted videos, but separate out the myth from reality. For example, I see more videos of the ozone wasp doing big airs and the FOne Swing'ers riding in surf (which is ultimately what I want to do) than for any other brands ... are their wings capable of things the others aren't? Or maybe even just marginally better? Or do they just have better marketing departments and better team riders?

Abdillam
VIC, 199 posts
Tuesday , 10 Sep 2019 10:52AM
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My first try of my duotone 5m before I progressed to the foil board... good way to get used to handling the wing before attempting to learn to foil

tightlines
WA, 3182 posts
Tuesday , 10 Sep 2019 10:21AM
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I'm only a few sessions in on the 5mtr Duotone and sup with either the 102 or 900 Axis foil.

Its pretty easy with 15knots+ but until the board (6'8) gets up and foiling it is pretty hard work.
Once it does the wing is heaps easier to hold and the board just points upwind easily.

I haven't tried it on a normal SUP yet (and doubt I ever will except maybe once or twice to try it) but I'd imagine it would be fairly hard work just to go back and forward, to get upwind would take some effort.

Something like an old school windsurfer with a dagger board may get upwind ok, to me though windwings are designed for use with a foil and are not going to be much fun for long without one.

warwickl
NSW, 1227 posts
Tuesday , 10 Sep 2019 4:19PM
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Abdillam said..
My first try of my duotone 5m before I progressed to the foil board... good way to get used to handling the wing before attempting to learn to foil



Please tell me more of your experience, e.g. how to turn a race board with the wing, balancing and starting etc
Thanks

Abdillam
VIC, 199 posts
Tuesday , 10 Sep 2019 9:10PM
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warwickl said..


Abdillam said..
My first try of my duotone 5m before I progressed to the foil board... good way to get used to handling the wing before attempting to learn to foil





Please tell me more of your experience, e.g. how to turn a race board with the wing, balancing and starting etc
Thanks



My 14 sup is a pin tail and I found myself way back on the tail...which is very narrow but managed to balance. This was a downwinder and I do a lot of them paddling so used to being back on the board. I was able to gybe downwind fairly easily. I've also done a lot of windsurfing so switching stance was also no problem.
Starting on your knees...get some power in the wing and let it pull you up as you stand up.
This run was about 10kms and my first time using the wing. Was actually a bit of fun...a lot quicker on a race board than trying it on a 10'6 or something like a surf sup. The race board glides downwind

I'm now winging on a foil board...much more fun getting up on the foil

IanInca
30 posts
Wednesday , 11 Sep 2019 1:07AM
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Abdillam said..

warwickl said..



Abdillam said..
My first try of my duotone 5m before I progressed to the foil board... good way to get used to handling the wing before attempting to learn to foil






Please tell me more of your experience, e.g. how to turn a race board with the wing, balancing and starting etc
Thanks




My 14 sup is a pin tail and I found myself way back on the tail...which is very narrow but managed to balance. This was a downwinder and I do a lot of them paddling so used to being back on the board. I was able to gybe downwind fairly easily. I've also done a lot of windsurfing so switching stance was also no problem.
Starting on your knees...get some power in the wing and let it pull you up as you stand up.
This run was about 10kms and my first time using the wing. Was actually a bit of fun...a lot quicker on a race board than trying it on a 10'6 or something like a surf sup. The race board glides downwind

I'm now winging on a foil board...much more fun getting up on the foil


I wouldnt like to try and turn the 14' back upwind though..



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"Windwing on a longboard" started by rgmacca