Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Wing Foiling on a negative volume

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Created by Filow 3 months ago, 11 May 2020
Filow
191 posts
11 May 2020 4:51AM
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Hi !
I am wondering of getting the new Fanatic Sky wing. I am 65KG i'm still a beginner in wing foiling. I can go on the foil but not a master at all.

I am wondering of getting the " secure " board the 5'0 75L or the maybe more exiting 4'8 55L board.

I am wondering of advices of people riding a negative volume board. Is the start that harder ? Do we loose a lot of wind range ?
I believe you don't mind the little wind wave that can make you fall when you're on a bigger board.

Any experience is nice to read !

Thanks foil Family !

willow75
23 posts
11 May 2020 5:18AM
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Hi Filow!

I am 60kg and started with a 90L board, then went to a 49L board - which once I got the hang of, I could use in 10kn of wind.. Now I use a 33L in anything over 12kn (with a 5m wing), so you do lose some wind range as you go lower but not as much as you might think if you are a smaller rider like yourself... There is some definite technique to learn though! I found wave pumping and maneuvers all easier on the smaller board as I can use my bodyweight better to control the board.. Also depends what foil you use as well though!
good luck!

Filow
191 posts
11 May 2020 5:32AM
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Thanks Man ! I have a 6m and 4m wing and Armstrong foil 2400 and the 1550.

willow75
23 posts
11 May 2020 6:45AM
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Ah cool, yea I run Armstrong 1050, 1200 & 1550. Have started using the small wings way more :) Hard to go back once you get used to them! If you are willing to do a little more floating around waiting for gusts - and practice your standing up in breeze to get good at it, I don't think you would regret a small board - Except for when its 8-10kn wind. I am looking for a BW board as well (around 58-60L) as a light wind board.

hilly
WA, 5508 posts
11 May 2020 7:59AM
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Filow said..
Hi !
I am wondering of getting the new Fanatic Sky wing. I am 65KG i'm still a beginner in wing foiling. I can go on the foil but not a master at all.

I am wondering of getting the " secure " board the 5'0 75L or the maybe more exiting 4'8 55L board.

I am wondering of advices of people riding a negative volume board. Is the start that harder ? Do we loose a lot of wind range ?
I believe you don't mind the little wind wave that can make you fall when you're on a bigger board.

Any experience is nice to read !

Thanks foil Family !


A mate is a very competent wingdinger. He went very small 5 2 on a pointy nose custom, found it a bit tough to get up, really sticky. He got a Fanatic sky cannot remember which one but looks tiny, 5 footer I am pretty sure. He loves it, stable pops up well. He is about 75kg.

AnyBoard
NSW, 13 posts
11 May 2020 4:59PM
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willow75 said..
Hi Filow!

I am 60kg and started with a 90L board, then went to a 49L board - which once I got the hang of, I could use in 10kn of wind.. Now I use a 33L in anything over 12kn (with a 5m wing), so you do lose some wind range as you go lower but not as much as you might think if you are a smaller rider like yourself... There is some definite technique to learn though! I found wave pumping and maneuvers all easier on the smaller board as I can use my bodyweight better to control the board.. Also depends what foil you use as well though!
good luck!


Hi Willow75,
This is great information. What starting method are you using for each of these volumes. I have seen Allan Cadiz and his starting methods and wonder if sitting on the board as he does is possible for ordinary humans learning this sport.
Thanks

bigtone667
NSW, 1243 posts
11 May 2020 5:17PM
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I am 105'ish and went from a 125L to 95L ........ it is definitely more challenging being on negative volume, but way more fun riding the smaller board. I am confined to knee starts at the moment.

Alan Cadiz went to a ~33L board he could pull under his body and stand on with straps. That would be hard, perhaps impossible to do on a 95L board.

But if you had the flexibility and balance, you could do the sitting launch he does on any board.

kobo
NSW, 308 posts
11 May 2020 6:41PM
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willow75 said..
Ah cool, yea I run Armstrong 1050, 1200 & 1550. Have started using the small wings way more :) Hard to go back once you get used to them! If you are willing to do a little more floating around waiting for gusts - and practice your standing up in breeze to get good at it, I don't think you would regret a small board - Except for when its 8-10kn wind. I am looking for a BW board as well (around 58-60L) as a light wind board.


Hey Willow, how much different do you find the 1050 from the 1200, I have the 1200, must need A bit more wind to get going on it.

emmafoils
188 posts
11 May 2020 5:08PM
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AnyBoard said..

willow75 said..
Hi Filow!

I am 60kg and started with a 90L board, then went to a 49L board - which once I got the hang of, I could use in 10kn of wind.. Now I use a 33L in anything over 12kn (with a 5m wing), so you do lose some wind range as you go lower but not as much as you might think if you are a smaller rider like yourself... There is some definite technique to learn though! I found wave pumping and maneuvers all easier on the smaller board as I can use my bodyweight better to control the board.. Also depends what foil you use as well though!
good luck!



Hi Willow75,
This is great information. What starting method are you using for each of these volumes. I have seen Allan Cadiz and his starting methods and wonder if sitting on the board as he does is possible for ordinary humans learning this sport.
Thanks


This would be very helpful.

willow75
23 posts
11 May 2020 5:35PM
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Technique: I straddle the board like sitting on a surfboard, and then get the wing sorted - my lower wind limit is basically that I need enough lift in the wing to pop up to my knees and have a little forward motion, then up again to standing and I'm off. The sinking the board in the straps takes a whole lot more wind to work for me.. I used the same method for both 49L & 33L - but the 49L I could sort of get on to my knees and just sit there before getting going, whereas on the 33L the knees have no stability and its about popping up onto my feet asap.

Best thing is to try it in heaps of wind - where you can use the wing to help 'lift' you up onto your knees and then up to standing - Depends what wing you have too, as I have recently tried a few different ones and noticed that some have more vertical lift than others.

The 1050 is definitely quite a bit faster as it's a lot thinner in profile & it is the HS version, so its slightly higher aspect than the 1200.. Does need more wind again though, just higher take off speeds, but once up its easy to keep going.

Filow
191 posts
11 May 2020 5:57PM
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So you can be on the kneed on the 49l board with 60kg ? Interesting.

emmafoils
188 posts
11 May 2020 7:04PM
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Filow said..
So you can be on the kneed on the 49l board with 60kg ? Interesting.


-10 L. Consistent with what I have read elsewhere. The board probably sinks a few cm. Also, most foils have some positive buoyancy.

Thanks, willow75 for the detailed information.

jharrisc
QLD, 8 posts
11 May 2020 9:30PM
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I ride a Sunova 4'5 35l
I am 90kgs
Axis 900 wing
Ozone Wasp 4m




ninjatuna
56 posts
11 May 2020 7:58PM
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jharrisc said..
I ride a Sunova 4'5 35l
I am 90kgs
Axis 900 wing
Ozone Wasp 4m





Interesting.. what is your low wind limit with that set up

Filow
191 posts
11 May 2020 8:34PM
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jharrisc said..
I ride a Sunova 4'5 35l
I am 90kgs
Axis 900 wing
Ozone Wasp 4m





Not too hard to start several times when you learn news things ? I mean if you fall like 20 times + in a session if the water start is pain to handle that can be negative in the end. Just asking :-D

willow75
23 posts
12 May 2020 4:59AM
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Yep, 49L (-10BW) board sits low when kneeling but doesn't sink, and yep, my foils have some positive buoyancy too..

Definitely recommend going out to try with enough wind to make it easy when you are learning or else it's pretty painful!

Filow
191 posts
12 May 2020 5:09AM
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Thanks !

Jedibrad
NSW, 524 posts
12 May 2020 8:34AM
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Surely loosing floatation takes away one of the major pluses of this Wingding thing? Or is it just me? One board to foil Sup, downwind and wingding. Being able to go out in straight offshore winds knowing you can paddle back in? Having a rest miles out to sea?

dejavu
183 posts
12 May 2020 11:33AM
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Alan Cadiz showing how it's done on a low volume board:



willow75
23 posts
12 May 2020 4:03PM
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Hey Jedibrad, once you try the lower volume its very hard to go back to foiling what feels like a bus! :) and the -10L boards are still very paddleable, even the 33L I use is paddleable - although yes, definitely not as fun getting home when the wind dies.. Great surf paddle training :)

bigtone667
NSW, 1243 posts
12 May 2020 6:06PM
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willow75 said..
Hey Jedibrad, once you try the lower volume its very hard to go back to foiling what feels like a bus! :) and the -10L boards are still very paddleable, even the 33L I use is paddleable - although yes, definitely not as fun getting home when the wind dies.. Great surf paddle training :)


I reckon the boards will end up being round disks with lots of flotation and almost no swing weight.

emmafoils
188 posts
12 May 2020 4:55PM
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Jedibrad said..
Surely loosing floatation takes away one of the major pluses of this Wingding thing? Or is it just me? One board to foil Sup, downwind and wingding. Being able to go out in straight offshore winds knowing you can paddle back in? Having a rest miles out to sea?


You mention some definite positives but the board makes such a big difference when foiling. Need a quiver of boards for different conditions.

bigtone667
NSW, 1243 posts
12 May 2020 7:32PM
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emmafoils said..


Jedibrad said..
Surely loosing floatation takes away one of the major pluses of this Wingding thing? Or is it just me? One board to foil Sup, downwind and wingding. Being able to go out in straight offshore winds knowing you can paddle back in? Having a rest miles out to sea?




You mention some definite positives but the board makes such a big difference when foiling. Need a quiver of boards for different conditions.



Most serious wingers will end up with a light wind board and big foil, and a smaller board and smaller foil and multiple wings.

AnyBoard
NSW, 13 posts
13 May 2020 7:30PM
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To hear first hand of surfer weight, wind range, board volume, wing size, foil sizes and finally starting methods for the board sizes and wind ranges has been fantastic. I wish i had info like this a few months ago so thank you to Willow75 as your weight is close to mine. Wishing good karma to you for sharing your experience.

For SUP foilers this info isn't so critical but for us prone foilers looking for the minimal practical equipment and suitable techniques to wing foil, with the minimal equipment, this is gold.

Starting techniques for below sup size equipment isn't discussed enough so thanks.

I think Alan's start method maybe the future for small volume boards but will be trying Willow75's method also. I am interested in anyone's experience in this area.

Filow
191 posts
13 May 2020 5:53PM
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Totally agree ! I created this topics cause I believe this will be a Big one when people start to make some progress in Wing Foiling. Remember the begining of kitesurfing we all had 2 boards and now the big one have disappeared.

Filow
191 posts
14 May 2020 12:24AM
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So Someone can confirm that with Weight -10L with a big foil like a 2400 you don't loose too much of low wing range.

I have relatively low wind in the summer in my area around 10-12 knot.

hilly
WA, 5508 posts
15 May 2020 12:18PM
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Filow said..
So Someone can confirm that with Weight -10L with a big foil like a 2400 you don't loose too much of low wing range.

I have relatively low wind in the summer in my area around 10-12 knot.


A lot to do with skill and fitness. But I have seen small boards used in light winds. Not for me though.

bigtone667
NSW, 1243 posts
15 May 2020 6:36PM
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Filow said..
So Someone can confirm that with Weight -10L with a big foil like a 2400 you don't loose too much of low wing range.

I have relatively low wind in the summer in my area around 10-12 knot.


I normally ride 125L (+15) and 2450 foil in light wind conditions.

Yesterday I went out on the 95L (-15) and a 2000 foil in light wind conditions and I found it much easier bouncing onto the foil. And more importantly, best knee starts I have had on the baby board.

So no loss for me at all in low wind. All I can put it down to is more time spent on the small board punishing myself.

Filow
191 posts
15 May 2020 4:57PM
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Thanks for the infos

willow75
23 posts
15 May 2020 5:51PM
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Would agree with Bigtone667 that it feels like the shorter/smaller boards actually get you up quicker - easier to put pressure on the foil to take off rather than just using hull speed to take off like on a big board.. sort of popping up rather than build up to fly.. But does take some practice and knowing how to pump wing & board!

Filow
191 posts
15 May 2020 6:04PM
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willow75 said..
Would agree with Bigtone667 that it feels like the shorter/smaller boards actually get you up quicker - easier to put pressure on the foil to take off rather than just using hull speed to take off like on a big board.. sort of popping up rather than build up to fly.. But does take some practice and knowing how to pump wing & board!




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"Wing Foiling on a negative volume" started by Filow