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Medium Wave Performance Shapes

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Created by ECSurf 1 month ago, 3 Dec 2021
ECSurf
18 posts
3 Dec 2021 2:49PM
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Hi guys, one for the shapers maybe. I'm focussing specifically on "in the pocket" surfing in the waist to slightly overhead range. Seems that shapes are going either wider with performance rocker (majority); or narrower with flatter rocker. My understanding is that the former would have lower planing speed, lower top speed, turn well in soft waves; whereas the latter would have high planing speed, but paddle faster and therefore catch smaller waves well and maybe better rail to rail. Both going shorter than a more traditional high performance shape.

Then of course there are the tail variations, I prefer a pintail for that kind of surfing. Plus everything else but you have to stop somewhere or we'll be here all day.
Just putting it out there for thoughts. Seems to be a lot of shorter, wider shapes with performance rocker on the market but only one or two in the narrow/flatter category. Interested to hear opinions and preferences. Especially if my assumptions are wrong!
Can you tell I'm thinking about my next custom?

Kovert
104 posts
3 Dec 2021 4:20PM
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If going shorter I'd look at something like the genration wedge, keep a straighter mid rail in the outline for speed and pull the tail in with some wings and add a pivot point. Step rails to keep the grip and volume on the stringer for easier recovery out of turns. Not too much rocker up front for early in but a nice accelerated tail rocker.

That's just me though!

Hipster twin is still probably one of the best turning boards out there for that wave height and fluid surfing. Drop the width and rail thickness a bit more maybe and would be dynamite.

ECSurf
18 posts
3 Dec 2021 5:49PM
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Yep, the Wedge is exactly what I had in mind when writing that!

slsurf
97 posts
4 Dec 2021 2:28AM
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I find that decent pocket waves are overrun with surfers I hope you are lucky enough to have those conditions and if so go for the shortest performance board you can reasonably balance.

Kisutch
182 posts
4 Dec 2021 12:53PM
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Blurr V2 pretty sweet for the narrow/flatter rocker route, I'd worried it needed perfect waves, like how folks describe JL Stun Gun sometimes, but it's actually super versatile.

colas
4461 posts
4 Dec 2021 1:27PM
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To turn in the pocket, I find that I like:

- boards where I can stay on the tail: basically where I can have one foot on the handle and one on the kickpad. This mean quite short, and for longer boards, a thin pulled in nose that adds board length without moving forward the centers of volume and outline.

- nimble enough so that you do not have to anticipate turns too much in advance: quick rail to rail. For me this means a convex tail (round, round pin, diamond, ...) rather than fish tails / swallows

- big rear rocker for hollow waves, faster ones for fat ones.

My favorite board is the Gong Alley. And as Gong added more rocker in 2022, I have now both a 2019 Alley 8'1" 120L for its flatter rear rocker and a 2022. Here they are, 2022 on top of the 2019. Very similar planshape, but quite different rocker and volume distribution.


And the outlines: we can see how the volume moved out of the tail has moved the handle forward a bit, the 2022 (right) is designed for more powerful waves than the 2019.

les71
61 posts
7 Dec 2021 6:54PM
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colas said..
To turn in the pocket, I find that I like:

- boards where I can stay on the tail: basically where I can have one foot on the handle and one on the kickpad. This mean quite short, and for longer boards, a thin pulled in nose that adds board length without moving forward the centers of volume and outline.

- nimble enough so that you do not have to anticipate turns too much in advance: quick rail to rail. For me this means a convex tail (round, round pin, diamond, ...) rather than fish tails / swallows

- big rear rocker for hollow waves, faster ones for fat ones.

My favorite board is the Gong Alley. And as Gong added more rocker in 2022, I have now both a 2019 Alley 8'1" 120L for its flatter rear rocker and a 2022. Here they are, 2022 on top of the 2019. Very similar planshape, but quite different rocker and volume distribution.


And the outlines: we can see how the volume moved out of the tail has moved the handle forward a bit, the 2022 (right) is designed for more powerful waves than the 2019.




Colas, the bottom of that black board looks sick but what's the go with the thin diluted grey paint? Did they run out of paint and have to water it down or something?

Jokes aside, if you painted over the grey with black that would be the sickest design on the market.

finsup
WA, 145 posts
7 Dec 2021 7:11PM
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I like the brushed carbon look.
Smik does a lighter style which is the bomb i reckon.

... if we could get gong in oz... some of the longer options would be on the cards.

colas
4461 posts
7 Dec 2021 8:45PM
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les71 said..
Colas, the bottom of that black board looks sick but what's the go with the thin diluted grey paint? Did they run out of paint and have to water it down or something?

Jokes aside, if you painted over the grey with black that would be the sickest design on the market.





This is the "brushed carbon" look. Basically, you only spray a very thin veil of white paint, and you sand away most of it.
It has thus just enough paint to protect a bit against the sun and mask the little aesthetic carbon cloth misalignment (having a glossy finish on carbon takes a lot of time, thus money, if you want a nice finish)... but without the weight of paint!

A full paint like the 2022 one will add around 500g. And this is for a very thin paint layer (you can still see through it). Full opaque paint layers weight even more. And for me, lighter gain is immensely more enjoyable than "nicer" (I actually like the "warplane metal" look of the brushed carbon).
Alas, customer pressure from people like you make the boards heavier...

PS: I had full black boards some time ago (glossy hotcoat on carbon)

ECSurf
18 posts
8 Dec 2021 12:26AM
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Hi Colas, thanks for the comparison. I never thought about the old Alley in less powerful waves, what's it like? I know it's a massive oversimplification, but I wonder what the new shape would be like with the refined shape/rails but more relaxed rocker, like no compromise performance but with a power limit.

Tardy
4246 posts
8 Dec 2021 2:55AM
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The new sunova flow is pretty good ..rounded pin ,super fast and thinned rails for grab .
it stays loose even at high speeds ,which a more narrower board seem to loose as they get more like a gun .
I'm actually getting a custom build for bigger waves ,but keeping a little width and a little longer for wave catching ability ,this is a smallish insane design ,8'10 ....and great surfing Colas ...

ECSurf
18 posts
8 Dec 2021 4:10AM
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Hey Tardy, the flow is one of the shapes I was thinking in the "wider with decent rocker" camp. How do you find it rail to rail?
Your custom looks great, bit like a beefed up version of my 8'9 Flash (which is an awesome good wave board) with more nose rocker, looks lighter in the nose too.

colas
4461 posts
8 Dec 2021 4:42AM
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ECSurf said..
Hi Colas, thanks for the comparison. I never thought about the old Alley in less powerful waves, what's it like?


It works quite well, but you have to keep it at speed, it loses its liveliness if not in full plane mode, unlike the "Tomo" shapes. I like it because it forces you to raise your "flow" instead of flashy moves that could let you with no speed.

Alas, I got my 2022 Alley on the exact day we were hit by what seems to become a full month of crappy conditions, up to at least mid-December, so I haven't tested it yet to see if the added tail rocker is slowing the board too much in weak waves. The Gong shaper has always liked fast rockers, not many of his boards have lots of rocker (as you can see on the video above, btw), I guess the Alley 2022 design was influenced by the "Pro" team.

Tardy
4246 posts
8 Dec 2021 5:50AM
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ECSurf said..
Hey Tardy, the flow is one of the shapes I was thinking in the "wider with decent rocker" camp. How do you find it rail to rail?
Your custom looks great, bit like a beefed up version of my 8'9 Flash (which is an awesome good wave board) with more nose rocker, looks lighter in the nose too.


ok ,yes rail to rail it is amazing ,it has much more speed than the flash ,the flow nose is up high and down in the tail giving it the speed ,you have to ride it on the tail ,but it has surprised me as being my most performance orientated board ,the thinned rail you can lay it over big time ,how ever it does make it a bit more tippy to paddle around ,I had my custom painted ,but kept the same 8'8 specs ,
being a bit older and 96 kgs ,i doubt i could ride the next one down ,to small .it really rides like a smaller board than 8'8 .I will drag out a rocker line of it ,but on the turns ,it does not loose speed ,I find myself slowing it down a bit ..it should of being called the pocket rocket ,this is my 3rd flow ,had the 8,10 ,didnt like the tail ,8'7 was a cracker ,but a little too small for me ,plus 30,25 wide vs 31 on the new 8'8 .and it gave me the extra 6 litres i needed ..so it s 126, litre ,but rides way smaller .

bomberdave
VIC, 325 posts
8 Dec 2021 9:03AM
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I agree with tardy, I also have the 8'8 V2 flow and love it. I have taken it out in everything Im 56 Y/o and around that 93-98 kegs, however I dont find it too tippy at all. In fact way less tippy than my old 9'1 creek!! Also in windy chop I seem to feel its as stable as glassy conditions..go figure! I also bought a 9'0 revolution some time back between lockdowns and was using that for a long while. Got back on the flow a few weeks ago and the love affair was reborn. It really is taking my surfing to a new level I just wish i didn't have the body of a 56 year old..I have never had so many comments from the prone guys and some are even complimentary! Im thinking about a slightly bigger version, your custom looks pretty awesome tardy I would like to know more?

Tardy
4246 posts
8 Dec 2021 6:04AM
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this is actually a 8,10 flow rocker ,so the 8'8 will look a little smaller ,but this is the flow rocker .super fast .and most of the rocker is from mid to nose ,your flash will have more tail kick ,much like my insane plan ,if your keeping your flash ,it would be good to have a more squirty board like the flow .


Tardy
4246 posts
8 Dec 2021 6:15AM
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bomberdave said..
I agree with tardy, I also have the 8'8 V2 flow and love it. I have taken it out in everything Im 56 Y/o and around that 93-98 kegs, however I dont find it too tippy at all. In fact way less tippy than my old 9'1 creek!! Also in windy chop I seem to feel its as stable as glassy conditions..go figure! I also bought a 9'0 revolution some time back between lockdowns and was using that for a long while. Got back on the flow a few weeks ago and the love affair was reborn. It really is taking my surfing to a new level I just wish i didn't have the body of a 56 year old..I have never had so many comments from the prone guys and some are even complimentary! Im thinking about a slightly bigger version, your custom looks pretty awesome tardy I would like to know more?


Thanks bomberdave ,still in design mode ,but will post as its being made photos ...fancy getting compliments from surfers woe ...
the flow sure has open my mind on what i can do on it too ...heres a short vid ..i done this year.

Tardy
4246 posts
8 Dec 2021 6:16AM
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Kisutch
182 posts
8 Dec 2021 6:45AM
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Those Gong boards are really intriguing. Colas - how do they get all the volume in there? If I read dims right, they have a 7'8" x 27.75" Alley that's 105L- similar size Sunova Flow is 88L, says similar thickness I think, 4-something inches

ECSurf
18 posts
8 Dec 2021 2:46PM
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Kisutch said..
Blurr V2 pretty sweet for the narrow/flatter rocker route, I'd worried it needed perfect waves, like how folks describe JL Stun Gun sometimes, but it's actually super versatile.


Hey Kisutch you have a WW too don't you? Interested to compare rocker profile with the Blurr. Would assume the Blurr has a bit more in the tail.?

colas
4461 posts
8 Dec 2021 4:29PM
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Kisutch said..
Those Gong boards are really intriguing. Colas - how do they get all the volume in there? If I read dims right, they have a 7'8" x 27.75" Alley that's 105L- similar size Sunova Flow is 88L, says similar thickness I think, 4-something inches


Well, the Gong shaper always tried to "hide" the volume in his boards. As he is/was often heavy (at times weighted from 85 to nearly 110kg) he has always wanted to be able to design boards with volume hidden away from the rails, and he does not like step rails. For instance putting it in the center in front of the handle, where you do not feel it, with a domed deck.

I see it as Gong boards being shorter for the same volume: I would have had to choose longer boards for my weight in most other brands, which some people will like, but not me as I am short and SUP mainly small to medium waves. I guess it is like wetsuits, each brand have a different cut that may fit you... or not.

Note also that the liters of Gong boards are rounded up/down to the closest 5 liters. You can see the exact volume in the top right corner of the CAD graph (the last picture for each model). The Alley 7'8" was 103.19 L in 2021, 100.93 L in 2022.

Kisutch
182 posts
9 Dec 2021 1:56AM
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ECSurf said..

Kisutch said..
Blurr V2 pretty sweet for the narrow/flatter rocker route, I'd worried it needed perfect waves, like how folks describe JL Stun Gun sometimes, but it's actually super versatile.



Hey Kisutch you have a WW too don't you? Interested to compare rocker profile with the Blurr. Would assume the Blurr has a bit more in the tail.?


Yeah have a WW -- I'm so bad at comparing rocker, nose looks similar but yeah I think Blurr has more in tail. I can measure if it'd be helpful -- is there a standard way to measure rocker? It's funny how it can be distributed, I briefly had a Rogue Payout that had a sort of mellow nose rocker but then a crazy flip at the end, like an elf's shoe

Kisutch
182 posts
9 Dec 2021 1:57AM
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colas said..

Kisutch said..
Those Gong boards are really intriguing. Colas - how do they get all the volume in there? If I read dims right, they have a 7'8" x 27.75" Alley that's 105L- similar size Sunova Flow is 88L, says similar thickness I think, 4-something inches



Well, the Gong shaper always tried to "hide" the volume in his boards. As he is/was often heavy (at times weighted from 85 to nearly 110kg) he has always wanted to be able to design boards with volume hidden away from the rails, and he does not like step rails. For instance putting it in the center in front of the handle, where you do not feel it, with a domed deck.

I see it as Gong boards being shorter for the same volume: I would have had to choose longer boards for my weight in most other brands, which some people will like, but not me as I am short and SUP mainly small to medium waves. I guess it is like wetsuits, each brand have a different cut that may fit you... or not.

Note also that the liters of Gong boards are rounded up/down to the closest 5 liters. You can see the exact volume in the top right corner of the CAD graph (the last picture for each model). The Alley 7'8" was 103.19 L in 2021, 100.93 L in 2022.


Thanks for summary!



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"Medium Wave Performance Shapes" started by ECSurf