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Sic v2 bullet and 2020 bullet

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Created by Bowerboy > 9 months ago, 1 Jan 2020
WaveScience
VIC, 131 posts
8 Jan 2020 10:42PM
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No more Unlimited Bullet?

baddog
256 posts
9 Jan 2020 2:12AM
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Baffled by the video. The 12'6" shown has a very narrow tail. Is the wide tail only on the 14'?

Area10
1508 posts
9 Jan 2020 4:04AM
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baddog said..
Baffled by the video. The 12'6" shown has a very narrow tail. Is the wide tail only on the 14'?


I'm wondering if the 12-6 has been kept more like it was because it had quite a cult following for its surfability. And if you were beach racing a 12-6 then that's what you'd need. Rounder rails and bigger arse aren't likely to make the new 14 a better surfer, even if they improve DW and general ocean paddling.

obijohn
123 posts
11 Jan 2020 11:51AM
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Bowerboy, thanks for posting the comparison with your previous v2. I am wondering if you could make any comparison of the 2020 Bullet 14 with the SIC F16. It seems like the new Bullet would be closer to the F16 in terms of stability, bump catching, and speed. I would love to hear any thoughts or comparisons.
Thanks.

Helmy
VIC, 796 posts
11 Jan 2020 3:29PM
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obijohn said..
Bowerboy, thanks for posting the comparison with your previous v2. I am wondering if you could make any comparison of the 2020 Bullet 14 with the SIC F16. It seems like the new Bullet would be closer to the F16 in terms of stability, bump catching, and speed. I would love to hear any thoughts or comparisons.
Thanks.


which model F16 are you talking about?

obijohn
123 posts
13 Jan 2020 11:03AM
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The F16 I was talking about is the last production version, which I think was v2.

Bowerboy
NSW, 141 posts
14 Jan 2020 10:18AM
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Took the new bullet to training with my regulars. I have been to training on my 26 RS many times so it was easy to do a comparison. I have also been to training on the bullet v2 before.

The conditions were pretty rough with backwash off headlands. We were doing out and backs around a pole. The first thing I noticed was that the bullet is much looser than the RS. I attribute this to the rounded rails running up to the back of the board, and the rounded sides. The RS has very straight rails and straight sides. This coupled with the wide tail and the 8 inch fin supplied makes the RS track. The bullet with the 7 inch fin, the rocker, pin tail and rounded rails was definitely looser, and had more side to side roll.

Upwind the bullet was very nice. When I have paddled the v2 in similar conditions I have really felt the board push against the chop, slowing me down and requiring quite an effort to keep momentum. The new bullet has a much more skaty feel, gliding up over the chop and easier to keep moving. Relative to my buddies I was not slower than when I am on my RS. This surprised me.

We did some flatwater wolf pack, congo line stuff to finish training. The new bullet was comfortable washriding and I could comfortably reach the front when it was my turn to sprint. Again relative to my buddies the new bullet on the flat had nice glide and kept up easily.

I was expecting the new bullet to be great downwind and it is. I have been surprised at how it performs in chop and on the flat. I have only had one training session on it but it felt comfortable and has a nice gliding sensation. It definitely seems to glide more over the surface whereas the older v2 seemed to push the water.

Area10
1508 posts
7 Feb 2020 2:01PM
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Useful vid:

Nozza
VIC, 2835 posts
7 Feb 2020 5:47PM
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Area10 said..
Useful vid:



Why am I looking for "Add to cart"?

Area10
1508 posts
17 Jul 2020 5:04AM
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Bowerboy said..
Took the new bullet to training with my regulars. I have been to training on my 26 RS many times so it was easy to do a comparison. I have also been to training on the bullet v2 before.

The conditions were pretty rough with backwash off headlands. We were doing out and backs around a pole. The first thing I noticed was that the bullet is much looser than the RS. I attribute this to the rounded rails running up to the back of the board, and the rounded sides. The RS has very straight rails and straight sides. This coupled with the wide tail and the 8 inch fin supplied makes the RS track. The bullet with the 7 inch fin, the rocker, pin tail and rounded rails was definitely looser, and had more side to side roll.

Upwind the bullet was very nice. When I have paddled the v2 in similar conditions I have really felt the board push against the chop, slowing me down and requiring quite an effort to keep momentum. The new bullet has a much more skaty feel, gliding up over the chop and easier to keep moving. Relative to my buddies I was not slower than when I am on my RS. This surprised me.

We did some flatwater wolf pack, congo line stuff to finish training. The new bullet was comfortable washriding and I could comfortably reach the front when it was my turn to sprint. Again relative to my buddies the new bullet on the flat had nice glide and kept up easily.

I was expecting the new bullet to be great downwind and it is. I have been surprised at how it performs in chop and on the flat. I have only had one training session on it but it felt comfortable and has a nice gliding sensation. It definitely seems to glide more over the surface whereas the older v2 seemed to push the water.


Bowerboy, a few months on, how do you feel about the Bullet now? How does it surf? How often do you use it vs. your RS?

Thanks for any more info.

Bowerboy
NSW, 141 posts
28 Jul 2020 4:57PM
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Hi,

I love my bullet even more after six months. It makes downwinding so much fun. When I had an ace I was always a bit nervous that the conditions would be beyond me. With the bullet I don't even think about that anymore. My favourite run ever was on Botany Bay when a 40 knot sustained gust hit. The bullet climbed onto an awesome drop, I trimmed the board back and slowed to sit on the run. My garmin showed 18km/hr for 250m. I just don't have the skills to do that on an ace. I have also done some nice runs on the bullet averaging about 10.8km/hr for 7km.

In light downwinding I would go for the RS. At 26 inches wide it carries the width the length of the board and so is about the same stability as the bullet. I suck paddling it in a serious downwind, but for downbreezing its wide tail makes it pick up tiny stuff easier than the bullet.

It is also faster than the bullet so I use it for training and racing. The bullet pushes water because of the rocker. Not nearly as bad as the old bullet though. In very messy stuff the RS can be a bit wobbly whereas the bullet is solid.

Overall the two boards make an awesome quiver and complement each other. For a heavier guy whose skills are not great they give lots of confidence. Finish wise the RS is super strong and hard. The bullet is very nice, coming from the same factory as Jimmy Lewis but it does scratch very easily, and is quite soft. I have punctured it twice with small bits of gravel. If it could have been made in the old factory that would have been better.

Area10
1508 posts
28 Jul 2020 8:04PM
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Thanks very much for the update. But whaaaat? The Kinetic-made Bullet is soft and fragile, and scratches easily? It's supposed to be basically the same full PVC sandwich construction as the Jimmy Lewis or Infinity boards, isnt in? Those brands are remarkably bombproof. Furthermore, I have a Cobra-built RS 26 (2018?) and a Kinetic-built RS 24.5 and there's no doubt that the Kinetic one feels more solid, although there are some areas that aren't quite as good (the handle is less comfortable and it is very slightly heavier). But in general I'd far rather have a full PVC board than single layer carbon plus innegra on the rails, and it was a factor in me buying the new model.

Have you been able to inspect any other Bullet 2020s?

I have no use for a soft or easily damaged downwind board. Downwinding almost inevitably means falls and bumps, knocks, and paddle clattering on decks, rails, and pretty much anywhere. Not to mention stacks of boards tied down firmly on roofracks in 40 knot winds... fragile boards don't last long. I love my V1 Bullet but the fragility of it is a constant source of trouble.

My Hypr Hawaii 14ft gun is double-carbon full PVC sandwich with extra reinforcement, and you could knock a house down with it. And my custom 16x26 DW board is 2x6oz carbon and glass with no PVC but is also super-durable and puncture-proof. So I cannot see why an expensive full PVC sandwich board made in one of the best factories in the world should be fragile or soft.

gregjet
QLD, 84 posts
29 Jul 2020 7:03AM
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Area10, I can support your comments re: the finish on my 2020 RS SF as well. It looked 1 year old after 2 DAYS!. My 2year old boards look less marked.
Luckily I don't actually care about looks, just performance and for me the board is a revelation. THE most stable board I own INCLUDING my Starboard whopper (34"wide) . No , not joking. I am old and unstable, so I bought the 28". Could have bought the 26" and been stable enough. Almost completely ignore side wash was as well.
Also the front seems to ignore headwinds and side winds, despite being very high. No idea how they did that but suspect the pointed ridge effects the wind rap and pressure differences.

Area10
1508 posts
29 Jul 2020 7:15AM
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Wow - have you guys received a bad batch? My 2020 RS is solid and although I haven't paddled it much the fit and finish seem fine and it feels stiff.

It has got a STUPID light grey deck pad that shows every little thing though, and that marks crazily easily. It looks like a lavatory mat too. SiC, if you are reading this, fer chrissakes STOP IT! Deck pads need to be grippy, but they also need to be able to be walked upon without having to be scrubbed for 20 mins after each use. NOT practical - even worse than the Cobra made boards in that respect.

Bowerboy
NSW, 141 posts
29 Jul 2020 1:06PM
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I was talking to someone who is involved in the manufacture of the boards at kinetic. He said that the actual layup and manufacturing process is not shared between brands and the factory is required to keep them secret. Accordingly SIC would not have access to the Jimmy Lewis setup and must spec it's own layup. Interestingly the bottom of my bullet is nice and hard and very durable. It is the nose and rails which have the darker colors that is shiny and plastic like. Also there is a white base under the dark paint so every scratch glows like mad. Personally I like a white board much more.

LucBenac
431 posts
29 Jul 2020 11:27AM
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Darn. So much for having a JL construction with a Naish design. I wish we could mix and match design and construction to create each one favorite. I would dig a Naish Maliko design with a JL PVC sandwich construction. Just cannot win on both side so far.

Area10
1508 posts
29 Jul 2020 1:04PM
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Yeah that's very disappointing. The Infinity boards from Kinetic seem well-made, but one advantage of a "brushed carbon" approach is that it looks old and tatty from new, so scratches are harder to spot.

It seems to me every Naish Maliko 2020 I hear about has suffered some kind of damage. But maybe I'm just not hearing about the ones that aren't.

Dammit. I'm going to have to scratch a 2020 SIC Bullet from my list of potential purchases. I'm not going to spend a small fortune on something that looks a year old after just a few days of use, and I'm having to worry about it touching anything at any time. Hopefully the SIC construction weaknesses are only skin deep, but that is still not good enough. If Jimmy Lewis can create light, strong and durable boards with the same materials availability then others should too. Maybe its the skills of the individuals actually making the boards that is not shared across lines, and that Mark himself is not going to the factory to liaise with them directly like Jimmy does, since BIC own SIC now.

Whatever, I'm not putting up with that kind of crap. Maybe I'll try a JL Rail instead.

LucBenac
431 posts
29 Jul 2020 1:38PM
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Area10 said..
Maybe I'll try a JL Rail instead.


I did a couple of years ago, and I will stick with the Maliko.

Area10
1508 posts
29 Jul 2020 7:46PM
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LucBenac said..


Area10 said..
Maybe I'll try a JL Rail instead.




I did a couple of years ago, and I will stick with the Maliko.



Don't be coy :) Why?

In the downwind videos I've seen of the Naish Maliko, it looks like it might be a bit of a handful in steep, confused conditions. Pearling galore. And all I get where I am is steep confused conditions.

LucBenac
431 posts
30 Jul 2020 2:15AM
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I just don't like a narrow pointy nose. It is not the board itself which is fine. I like the nose of the Maliko that is wide and oblong goind underwater sometime without loosing speed. I also find that in our less than perfect conditions with lull and gust, the Maliko style helps the general paddling.

Area10
1508 posts
30 Jul 2020 4:45AM
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LucBenac said..
I just don't like a narrow pointy nose. It is not the board itself which is fine. I like the nose of the Maliko that is wide and oblong goind underwater sometime without loosing speed. I also find that in our less than perfect conditions with lull and gust, the Maliko style helps the general paddling.


Ah, OK. Don't you find that boards with soft rails and plenty of volume in the nose are hard to quarter wind and waves over 20 knots?

One of the things that puts me off a Rail is that it looks too thick in the middle, which means that you stand high above the water which is less stable and less efficient for paddling. I had a M14 and it could easily have lost 0.5-0.75 off the thickness in the middle. Same with the SIC Bullet V1.

But what puts me off the Maliko is reports of fragility, and although it is nice having a sunken deck, I'd need to look carefully at the depth of the lip of the deck on the Maliko if it were to be used a lot for DW. I always seem to bang my knee getting back on boards with substantial lips... did it this morning in fact, with my RS. But my Vapor is OK for that and it has a smaller lip.

LucBenac
431 posts
30 Jul 2020 6:37AM
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First teh Maliko has some volume in the nose but not "plenty of volume" so I find it very manageable but you have to be anticipating and fast on your feet. It is not a clog with a huge nose volume. That said on big stuff it is when I would prefer more rocker obviously but on small stuff it is when I prefer not to....can't have it both way :-)
The 2020 with a touch more rocker might just be the perfect balance.
Now the single layer construction freaks me out a bit on a board that I want to downwind....I am just crossing fingers and might take the balsa sandwich Allround if things gets too big in the winter.

I had the exact same feeling on the Rail. The "toothpick" feeling. Not so much that the board is too narrow but that it is too thick under the feet.

LucBenac
431 posts
30 Jul 2020 8:21AM
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Unless I am mistaken, there is a layer missing to the sandwich unless you count the paint as a layer....


From that point of view, at least SIC Flyweight construction does look like areal sandwich


Area10
1508 posts
30 Jul 2020 1:55PM
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Yeah, the SIC PVC sandwich should be solid. My 2020 RS seems to be, so far. As I've said, the deck pad is LUDICROUS in thst it attracts and shows a dirty mark every time you stand on it. But so far I have no signs of the softness or paint chipping reported here for the 2020 Bullets. Different paint job on the RS though - they don't have the dark red layer on the nose that is being reported as soft on the Bullets.

I can't explain why a carbon full PVC sandwich should feel soft and puncture easily though. That makes no sense to me, and as I say, so far my 2020 RS has not been like that.

The Maliko 2020 is a poor construction IMO, in comparison, and is more like the Bullet V1 construction that means I have to baby my V1. The Maliko 2020 isn't a sandwich at all. There isn't even any innegra on the rails like the previous year's models had on the SIC SCC+ construction. It doesn't look nice either IMO: the graphics and colour scheme look like someone spent 5 minutes on it and then gave up.

It sounds like the 2020 Bullet might have a good potential construction that is poorly executed. Let's hope that the Naish's poor potential construction is well executed.

I've had enough of this crappy construction nonsense with so many of these so-called premium brands. I have a couple of Gomg boards that were dirt cheap yet one is full wood and carbon kevlar sandwich and the other is full PVC sandwich. They are heavy, but strong and durable and cost me less than a third of what I paid for my RS. That is an INSANE construction-price differential.

My Hypr semi-custom double carbon full PVC sandwich bombproof construction also cost about the same as a single carbon no-sandwich Maliko. So poor value for money from Naish.

paul.j
QLD, 3300 posts
30 Jul 2020 5:06PM
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Just because some brands are made in the same factory does not mean they all use the same construction. We make our ONE boards in the kinetic factory have our own constructions and as long as long as you pay the money it is exactly what you would expect. These guys are the best in the business and make amazing boards but each company determines their own construction.

Area10
1508 posts
30 Jul 2020 10:31PM
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paul.j said..
Just because some brands are made in the same factory does not mean they all use the same construction. We make our ONE boards in the kinetic factory have our own constructions and as long as long as you pay the money it is exactly what you would expect. These guys are the best in the business and make amazing boards but each company determines their own construction.


Yeah, of course. But how can we explain why the guys here are reporting that their 2020 Bullets are soft and chip easily when they are (a) full PVC sandwich, and (b)the 2020 RS I have in supposedly the same construction seems solid and reasonably chip-resistant? It sounds to me more like something has gone wrong with the execution of the specified construction rather than the specification of it by the brand-?

LucBenac
431 posts
30 Jul 2020 11:14PM
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Area10 said..
The Maliko 2020 is a poor construction IMO, in comparison, and is more like the Bullet V1 construction that means I have to baby my V1. The Maliko 2020 isn't a sandwich at all. There isn't even any innegra on the rails like the previous year's models had on the SIC SCC+ construction. It doesn't look nice either IMO: the graphics and colour scheme look like someone spent 5 minutes on it and then gave up.



Yes I hope that a terrific design is not marred by a poor construction. Crossing fingers. Burchas' board outside of the initial break the nose/break the paddle shaft seems to have held. If Naish would have stuck to the previous construction with just a small improvement in means and methods or execution to gain a pound or two, I would have been a happier camper with a rock solid 2020 Maliko at 27 lbs or so. I guess that for racers, a 2018/2019 Maliko at 28~29 lbs was probably not attractive. not the best for downbreezing either, but good for downwinding. No excuse to get to a single layer construction.

burchas
335 posts
30 Jul 2020 11:14PM
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Area10 said..

paul.j said..
Just because some brands are made in the same factory does not mean they all use the same construction. We make our ONE boards in the kinetic factory have our own constructions and as long as long as you pay the money it is exactly what you would expect. These guys are the best in the business and make amazing boards but each company determines their own construction.



Yeah, of course. But how can we explain why the guys here are reporting that their 2020 Bullets are soft and chip easily when they are (a) full PVC sandwich, and (b)the 2020 RS I have in supposedly the same construction seems solid and reasonably chip-resistant? It sounds to me more like something has gone wrong with the execution of the specified construction rather than the specification of it by the brand-?


One can assume (or hope rather) that this was a one-off production mishap. I've seen it happens to most brands. I know the SIC production guy, he's sharp and on the ball, but I'm not sure what's their quality control protocol. I should send him a link to this thread.

I'm inclined to believe your RS is a standard representation of their construction, otherwise, I think we would hear about it on the forums.
Hopefully we'll get one of those Bullets in stock here soon so I can have hands on.

LucBenac
431 posts
30 Jul 2020 11:20PM
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burchas said..

I know the SIC production guy, he's sharp and on the ball, but I'm not sure what's their quality control protocol.


You probably also know the Naish production guy by now :-) Hope that he is as sharp :-)

LucBenac
431 posts
30 Jul 2020 11:22PM
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Something tells me that I will start saving for a Driftwood or possibly a Hypr Gun for next year....



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"Sic v2 bullet and 2020 bullet" started by Bowerboy