Hi Everyone
Okay so I'm heading back onto the water after about 15yrs ! (OMG) because I'm sick of watching my kids sail their skiffs around and being bored out of my mind on the land!
I've got a Bic 293 on the way. The reasons for this are many: I need to go upwind, I want to be able drop the rig and stand/watch them, I will possibly race it, and more importantly I will to use it for them (they will be able to race it in the next few years themselves).
I've gone for the c490 mast that allows me to use both the 7.8 and 8.5 one design sails. I have a 7.8 that I'll use to "learn again".
A question or two:
- What alternative larger (8.5+) sails will match this mast outside the one design packages and without being ridiculously expensive?
- The specs on the Bic mast show it as reasonably bendy @21 ICMS - big deal, not big deal? (again, I'd love two or three masts but alas budget says no).
In return for a good answer I'll post some pics of me upside down
Thanks in advance!
Now a days, the masts are a lot stiffer.
Usually around 25 / 27 IMCS for that length, but theres a lot more carbon in them and they are a lot more responsive.
Also carbon does go softer over time so that won't help either.
If your old sail works then fine use it but newer sails from the past 15 years or so simply wont set or they will feel terrible.
Theres plenty of good gear on this site that has been looked after and is cheap and newer sails (although they wont feel as powerful as the older stuff) are actually a lot more efficient and a hell of a lot nicer to use.
Good on ya for getting back into it, hopefully you'll love it again.
Hi,
To clarify, all gear is new - except sails which I'd like 2nd hand because they'll probably be underwater a lot!.
The Bic mast is interesting/confusing because it seems the IMCS is quite low for a new item relative to other brands (see the bic website, I can't post the link because I'm too new a member!). Anyway this is why I was asking - I wonder if there's a reason for that and what sails might suit a bendy mast :).
Cheers and thanks for the welcome!
The BIc OD sails are probably one of the best value for money sails around plus they are hugely versatile and can be used as slalom sails, foil sails and raceboard sails all in addition to there intended use and they have a wind range from 3 to 25+ knots, I have seen kids hang onto them racing in winds that strong many times
I am not sure why the mast is more bendy maybe its because the sails are intended for racing in the OD class and they need a huge tuning range, they can be set for tight leech with a deep draft for light winds then downhauled to flatten them out and loosen off the leech for stronger winds, that is what makes them so versatile and suitable for use in so many different disciplines.
Hi Everyone
Okay so I'm heading back onto the water after about 15yrs ! (OMG) because I'm sick of watching my kids sail their skiffs around and being bored out of my mind on the land!
I've got a Bic 293 on the way. The reasons for this are many: I need to go upwind, I want to be able drop the rig and stand/watch them, I will possibly race it, and more importantly I will to use it for them (they will be able to race it in the next few years themselves).
I've gone for the c490 mast that allows me to use both the 7.8 and 8.5 one design sails. I have a 7.8 that I'll use to "learn again".
A question or two:
- What alternative larger (8.5+) sails will match this mast outside the one design packages and without being ridiculously expensive?
- The specs on the Bic mast show it as reasonably bendy @21 ICMS - big deal, not big deal? (again, I'd love two or three masts but alas budget says no).
In return for a good answer I'll post some pics of me upside down
Thanks in advance!
Hi MeToo,
I restarted windsurfing after 30+ years layoff. Bought a Fanatic Viper and a 9.6m2 sail for the light winds here, no surf nor Australian Bight 25-30 knot seabreezes. Then discovered windfoiling, you gotta try this.
- The specs on the Bic mast show it as reasonably bendy @21 ICMS - big deal, not big deal?
That not just .."reasonably bendy" !! That is a NOODLE!!
I am having trouble believing that a 490 mast is built so soft. Are you sure that is not an error? Has anyone actually measured one?
The mast might be made for one of their soft sails. I did quote earlier that the IMCS should be around 25 to 27 but after looking at several sites its usually around 29 for a performance 490 mast.
The stand up paddle board sails some people use are like an old windsurfer rig and are incredibly soft.
If you want anything that has got performance you will have to get better gear.
Also after looking at the Bic website I have noticed that the rig is designed as a youth sail, smaller people usually use softer masts, also they have a carbon content of 60 % most performance masts are 85 % and above.
I would contact the shop you originally bought the gear from and ask them.
Having the 430 460 and 490 the same stiffness does allow for less masts in the quiver which is value for money. It's a one design so it's not an issue unless you are in a mixed fleet.
Having the 430 460 and 490 the same stiffness does allow for less masts in the quiver which is value for money. It's a one design so it's not an issue unless you are in a mixed fleet.
Understandable logic, but unfortunately, it does not work that way with IMCS mast ratings.
IMCS is'Indexed Mast Check System'. This was designed to enable a practical comparison of different length masts.
The idea, as I understand it was to fix the fact the MCS testing was overwhelmingly influenced by the length of the mast. So that a shorter mast of similar stiffnes, tested with the 30KG weight, would test much stiffer (higher number) in MCS and one that was longer would test much softer (lower number). So the IMCS was developed to 'index' the rating to the length. (The standard mast length and stiffness was selected as 460cm 25 MCS, which also IMCS tests as 25 IMCS)
So the only logical explanation I can think of is that the 21 rating on the 490 mast is actually it's MCS rating. If this is the case it could be closer to a normal 490 - 27 IMCS rating. I would have to do the maths to check that but I am feeling too lazy ATM to look up the formula.
Having the 430 460 and 490 the same stiffness does allow for less masts in the quiver which is value for money. It's a one design so it's not an issue unless you are in a mixed fleet.
Understandable logic, but unfortunately, it does not work that way with IMCS mast ratings.
IMCS is'Indexed Mast Check System'. This was designed to enable a practical comparison of different length masts.
The idea, as I understand it was to fix the fact the MCS testing was overwhelmingly influenced by the length of the mast. So that a shorter mast of similar stiffnes, tested with the 30KG weight, would test much stiffer (higher number) in MCS and one that was longer would test much softer (lower number). So the IMCS was developed to 'index' the rating to the length. (The standard mast length and stiffness was selected as 460cm 25 MCS, which also IMCS tests as 25 IMCS)
So the only logical explanation I can think of is that the 21 rating on the 490 mast is actually it's MCS rating. If this is the case it could be closer to a normal 490 - 27 IMCS rating. I would have to do the maths to check that but I am feeling too lazy ATM to look up the formula.
Hm. One thing that points to this being correct is the "V1" 490 mast was rated at 29 IMCS. Their current but "V2" mast is rated at the 21 mark - and I can't think why they'd move that much between the generations. I'm going to go with the assumption that it's actually quite stiff. This post gives me confidence in that assumption.
See: www.surfsailaustralia.com.au/product/bic-techno-t293-one-design-mast#surf-sail-clothing-hardware
The above graphic of a 460 mast (60% carbon) suggests it is IMCS 25. I believe, unless I am mistaken, that the reference to IMCS 21 the OP has for the 490 must be an error. You might be best to look closely at the specs on the mast and photograph them and post.
I'm with the others. Whoever posted the specs on the Bic website only posted the stiffness for the 430
www.boardwisecannock.co.uk/2019-techno-masts-p-6899.html
Bic uses pretty vanilla CC masts on purpose.