I'm very curious also, I've sailed the Cube 86L 2018 a few days in a row in schlog and surf back then and I was impressed with it's ability to DTL in good wave size even for that size(for me it was +20L).
Select to expand quoteUtah said..
Hi!
I just made a side by side test for three days in different conditions
with the Cube 87L 2020 and the Goya 3 91L 2020.
I will post the result of how i experienced the two boards later this week.
I demo'ed the Custom 3 98 L last year at Kanaha in Maui. I really liked it, but my home conditions are more cross onshore than Kanaha so I'm guessing the Cube is a better fit for me at home. But I'd love to hear your experiences.
Why so quad better for Side on PhilN ? ... remember Goya take attitude that quad is their sideshore , thruster their side on model .... ? Even though I would argue thruster has better traits for both ...
If you like the tail to slide a little more in side on - then Cube would be better / fins looser than custom 3 probably ...
In fact - we could proabably theortically extrapulate out performance differences between cube and C3 , should we not be lucky enough to get the ' Utah review' whilst many in lockdown misery ... I wager his underground verdict is CUBE clear winner - as bit looser , feels more radical to slide the fins ... ??
Theoritcal arm chair testing ... Put a 'maybe' in front of every conclusion ...
SIDE ON ....
More planted topend = CUBE
More low end = custom 3
Better upwind = custom 3
Crisper feel / Livelyness = Custom 3
Looser on a wave = CUBE
More fun if you like to slide the fins = CUBE
Best speed DTL in onshore = CUBE (sits nose down bit more - carries speed rail down on the wave bit longer)
Best backside turns / hacks = Custom 3
Pushing vertical in side on and pivot hit off the top hit to come back quickly = custom 3
Best jumper - ie turning upwind quickly in side on to hit angled ramp and throw a backie = Custom 3
Advanced level I would add -
If you like to add power to your turns = Custom 3
Better for wave shakas = Custom 3
Better for taka's = Cube
SIDESHORE ...
depends on yr style ... ??? either - OR
Looser = Cube
Harder hack / more spray = Custom 3
More drive / stability / hold on a bigger face / choppier wave = custom3
More vertical sailing = Custom 3
Smaller sideshore = Cube ?
Bigger sideshore = Custom 3
Front foot style bottom turn hard = Custom 3 maybe
More backfoot style , or sailing off the tail more = maybe Cube ...
Whats everyone else think ... ?
Select to expand quoteseabreezer said..
Why so quad better for Side on PhilN ? ... remember Goya take attitude that quad is their sideshore , thruster their side on model .... ? Even though I would argue thruster has better traits for both ...
My personal perception is based on my current boards. I have the 2017 Cube 95 and I really like it in cross on, better than the 2014 Cube 98 which I had before . The 95 holds speed through an onshore bottom turn better than the older Cube. To my uneducated eye the 2017 Cube has a wider tail with straps further back than the older Cube. It also feels like it has a faster rocker. Feels "freer" and quicker to plane than the older shape.
Comparing the Custom 3 98 L that I had 3 days on to the 95 that I've had for nearly 4 years is not fair. But on face value the 2017 Cube 95 holds bottom turn speed better in crappy waves (Florida vs Uppers), and can tighten bottom turns mid turn better while still maintaining speed. Regardless of how well thruster vs quad turn off the top, the better onshore top turn is usually the one that has more speed going into it. So my comment is based on my preconceived idea of which board might hold speed better in cross onshore bottom turns.
I also have a 2016 Sphere 115 L thruster as my light wind slogger. As much as I acknowledge it isn't really possible to compare two very different volume boards, I prefer the Cube in cross onshore. Very unscientific answer, but then isn't wave riding about how good it makes you feel while doing it?
Select to expand quotebigdaz said..
C'mon Utah, spill the beans. I've been hanging out for your review!!! Not many people get to have that many sessions to compare boards - we rely on hearing real world feedback from regular human beings!!!
just give us what you've got - people will agree, disagree, whatever... your opinion is valid and worth sharing.
looking forward to it. Cheers
Hey bigdaz - are you looking to go back to darkside side-on shapes ... ? from memory you had cube/super mini quiver 85/95 into selling up into pyramid thruster dedicated quiver - you feel your now missing something in your quiver you have to convince your wife of ???? and yourself ?? haha ...
Select to expand quoteseabreezer said..
Whats everyone else think ... ?
I think u like Goya verry much
It's just a theory of my own, but is it possible that KT took the best things of the older Cube and the Supermini and baked it together to the new Cube.
So the Gap between Cube and Supermini is so close that the Supermini is just unnecessary now. There are some Details which both Boards share, like parallel outline, compact outline, diamond tail, stance further back and so on. So when I come from the 85 Supermini, the Cube perhaps feel not far away from that in a wavier, looser, crispier way but keep the benefits like early planing, speed, acceleration. (When I changed from Barracuda quad to the Supermini, it tooked some time to adjust me to the board but now I love it for some reasons) I really hope the Cube will jump better, the Supermini needs really a steep wave to go high. The Goya is more looking like a classic shape but I know it's also shaped with parallel rails and some more volume in the back. I would expect that the Goya master Jumping better. BTW, is still KT shaping the Goya Boards?
Select to expand quoteseabreezer said..bigdaz said..
C'mon Utah, spill the beans. I've been hanging out for your review!!! Not many people get to have that many sessions to compare boards - we rely on hearing real world feedback from regular human beings!!!
just give us what you've got - people will agree, disagree, whatever... your opinion is valid and worth sharing.
looking forward to it. Cheers
Hey bigdaz - are you looking to go back to darkside side-on shapes ... ? from memory you had cube/super mini quiver 85/95 into selling up into pyramid thruster dedicated quiver - you feel your now missing something in your quiver you have to convince your wife of ???? and yourself ?? haha ...
Haha, nope!!! Completely stoked on the Pyramid!!! Took me a while to get there, but feel like it's my perfect board.
Im just a gear nerd and love hearing about what people think on new gear, no matter what it is... so much good gear out there that I will probably never get to try - so it's cool to hear about first hand experiences. 
Not so much I like GOYA more ... more like I prefer thrusters more these days generally ... Its a shame goya / quatro don't 5 box ... as... if thruster obviously worked great for super mini - it would would on current diamond tail cube that shares lots of super mini DNA ... people could pick and choose fin systems as they want ... same for custom 4 - that would probably rip as a thruster and offer an option of fraction more range out of a sideshore shape than pyramid ... (wider tail , wider nose , probably less rocker etc) ....
Utah obviously declared the CUBE the winner ...
I don't know on what you based your theory on winner in different category @seabreazer, I would be glad you explain, not that i don't beleive you..but for my personal knowledge!
I did not tried the goya, but one thing that surprised me with the cube was how much it could handle big waves in side shore. It was in Kanaha, never went under logo and the board was a blast in that schlog and surf conditions!! The only complain I would do for the Cube, for a a couple of hours I became over power and it was choppy and I needed to move the mast base, low the boom...did not spread the fin...but I was not as confortable with the cube compare to a Pyramide. Could be the technique also.
Hi NordRoi - it was armchair theorising based on my experiences jumping back and fwd on ALOT of different boards all year ... I'm always jumping back and forth on quads and thrusters ... with different shaping characteristics ... and you start seeing these similarities in sailing style quad vs thruster regardless of shaping details to 'some' extent ... (be it rocker , outline , rail shape , thickness etc) . and its alot related to the power balance of fins of thruster vs quad , and what that does for different moves / nose pitch etc .... So , when say for instance - custom 3 will say 'wave shaka' better (lets use a binary move as comparison for ease ) - thats from my experiences throwing 1000's of shakas going out and coming into shore , on quad and thruster , and then on same shape either config in a 5 box at some point ... and thinking about nose pitch / trim / and why that move benefits from a certain 'power ' balance in the cluster ... same with bottom turns , topturns etc etc ...
PhilN's comment re cube just feels a bit more fun - better keeping speed etc (and I alluded to it in my earlier post that best DTL speed would prob be quad cube ... ) ... I agree -
BUT- an interesting thought/sailing experiment would be..... if you indeed wanted to FUN up the custom 3 a bit more in side on ... you could look at tweaking fin balance , so instead of 18/10 say stock set-up ... you go 12front 16 back (or more radical 14 front 15 rear) - so a bit more nose down efficiency in the bottom turn and extra drive from bigger driving front fin (still wouldn't carry as much speed as a quad though ) ... BUT the looseness off the tail would start becoming a little more QUAD like off the top (as you've shifted the power balance in the cluster FWD to imitate quad power balance ... A good sailor would ignore the less carry bottom turn speed - and hook tighter bottom turn lines and off the tops ...
Here's my feeling though ... You can adjust a thruster more towards quad 'lose the tail ' feel with a smaller rear , but its harder to 'pivot up ' a quad to imitate a thruster in my experience if that makes sense ... (because quads imo you want to be standing a little further fwd on the board / and fins further forward , and more importantly - there's a limit on pivoting up 2 rears vs a single rear mounted furtherback) .... You will never get a thruster to sail better in 'quad like mode' than quad though ( I like quads too !) ... as reducing back fin size starts impacting amount of available easy drive in the bottomturn - which needs really good aggressive technique to tap into efficiently (ie a pro guy could go smaller rear and still get through his bottom turn with speed by using more rail drive and better sail drive ...) , but then still tap into drivey topturn even with less fin ... (again technique with the sail etc ) ...
Overall though - I think there's more range tuning available in thruster than quad ... For me there's a couple of moves that don't feel as good with thruster , but the other benefits offset that mostly ...
Select to expand quoteNordRoi said..
I don't know on what you based your theory on winner in different category @seabreazer, I would be glad you explain, not that i don't beleive you..but for my personal knowledge!
I did not tried the goya, but one thing that surprised me with the cube was how much it could handle big waves in side shore. It was in Kanaha, never went under logo and the board was a blast in that schlog and surf conditions!! The only complain I would do for the Cube, for a a couple of hours I became over power and it was choppy and I needed to move the mast base, low the boom...did not spread the fin...but I was not as confortable with the cube compare to a Pyramide. Could be the technique also.
Reason I say custom 3 would be better bigger DTL ... your bottom paragraph would be a case in point ... Cube will handle big waves , and easy in schlog conditions - and add lots of speed and easy drive thats needed in those conditions - thats a 'given' ... BUT - The limits of planshape will be exposed when it gets choppy / overpowered ... Custom 3 has slightly more 'drawn' outline ... BUT ... also has that bigger rear - with its fin tip , sitting further back in relation to yr backfoot helping to exerting more leverage against any body positioning ... that would add to its ability to hold the rail better for longer in a laydown bottom turn ... again - all experiences Ive found with my gear ... When you have to throw yourself harder over the front in an overpowered choppy bottom turn entry / sail sheeted in and back to initiate , the thruster rear 'tip' will give the tail more stability for longer in that phase (not to mention also maybe not sitting as nose down engaging unwanted lift from planshape further up) , and then not 'over react' when the power balance shifts quickly the other way (ie sail forward , body shifting back) mid bottom turn ...
Hope that helps - think thats maybe enough from me on these topics for the moment - Im boring myself let alone most others on here ...
I have a question regarding board size. At 74kg, I'm currently sailing a 2014/2015 78l Goya Quad which I really love, but which is getting old. I'm wondering whether the 82l Cube or the 81l Custom 3 are too big for well powered 3.7m side-on conditions which we have in the North Sea? I fear that the 75l versions are too close to my weight; I like to have a little float capacity.
just a thought ... 81 custom 3 is 57.4 / 35.8 .... that could get bet control issue 3.7 weather ... and trying to get 'float' out of shapes like cube/custom 3 could be a challange for 3.7 ... you could also think of both ranges more highwind offerings , and go for the 80+ LTRS , but still with some control as narrower tails ...
custom 4 (bit more rocker / topend for 3.7 )
84 .... 56.8 (still narrower than custom 3 / 81 ) ,
79 .... 55.3 / narrower tail 35 ...
OR
pyramid 82 ...... 56.5 - only 34.5 - would handle 3.7
79 custom 4 could be the BOMB pick - and sick graphics ...(tail has bit more carry than pyramid ... , but more rocker for tighter 3.7 turns than custom3 / cube )
Select to expand quoteseabreezer said..
just a thought ... 81 custom 3 is 57.4 / 35.8 .... that could get bet control issue 3.7 weather ... and trying to get 'float' out of shapes like cube/custom 3 could be a challange for 3.7 ... you could also think of both ranges more highwind offerings , and go for the 80+ LTRS , but still with some control as narrower tails ...
custom 4 (bit more rocker / topend for 3.7 )
84 .... 56.8 (still narrower than custom 3 / 81 ) ,
79 .... 55.3 / narrower tail 35 ...
OR
pyramid 82 ...... 56.5 - only 34.5 - would handle 3.7
79 custom 4 could be the BOMB pick - and sick graphics ...(tail has bit more carry than pyramid ... , but more rocker for tighter 3.7 turns than custom3 / cube )
I agree with Seabreeze, Custom 4 79 would be my pick for your weight, and still provide a bit of float but not compromise it's control.
Ok, interesting. From the tests I've read, I understood that the Custom 4 is not suited for smaller waves. Do you guys have an idea how the 2020 Goya boards compare to the 2014 Quad?
Select to expand quoteursblank said..
Ok, interesting. From the tests I've read, I understood that the Custom 4 is not suited for smaller waves. Do you guys have an idea how the 2020 Goya boards compare the 2014 Quad?
I read that windsurf test as well ... strange - as they suggest its super fast and quick to get going (ie pretty universal for side-on etc) ... they say it has a front footed approach - maybe thats why needs bigger waves etc OR maybe the the outline somehow doesn't switch over to backfoot mode too well ? ... seems strange ... or maybe the grip factor is too high for smaller waves ? - if so - changing rears to smaller rears or more flexy would sort (lose the tail quicker / easier .... if backfoot mode issue - bigger rears and even smaller fronts might sort ... Remember - test teams mostly just test with the stock fins - and some of the issues / comments / opinions can be sorted with a fin change ... Again - shame its not a 5 box as could have given the custom 4 an extra dimension ...
Select to expand quoteseabreezer said..ursblank said..
Ok, interesting. From the tests I've read, I understood that the Custom 4 is not suited for smaller waves. Do you guys have an idea how the 2020 Goya boards compare the 2014 Quad?
I read that windsurf test as well ... strange - as they suggest its super fast and quick to get going (ie pretty universal for side-on etc) ... they say it has a front footed approach - maybe thats why needs bigger waves etc OR maybe the the outline somehow doesn't switch over to backfoot mode too well ? ... seems strange ... or maybe the grip factor is too high for smaller waves ? - if so - changing rears to smaller rears or more flexy would sort (lose the tail quicker / easier .... if backfoot mode issue - bigger rears and even smaller fronts might sort ... Remember - test teams mostly just test with the stock fins - and some of the issues / comments / opinions can be sorted with a fin change ... Again - shame its not a 5 box as could have given the custom 4 an extra dimension ...
Hi,
I have been eagerly following the discussion. I agree with most of what seabreezer says. I own a goya custom 4 74 2020. What a board. I changed the stock fins with 8 K4 shark II front and 14 rears k4 scorchers. Epic! I am even thinking of even something more heretical- putting 12 Shark II as rears, but the covid craze stopped everything. Hope to survive and try.Stay safe to all.
I messed around with some 12 rear quad set-ups a few years ago ... kinda fun power slides for a few sessions etc ... but lost too much drive generally for general fun ...
13 skorch , 13 flex Leons and 13 stiff Leons could all be epic ...
If you want to make a slight adjustment to make yr stock fins better performance imo (ie wont be using then even for bigger sail stuff) let me know ... easy tweak u can do
Select to expand quoteseabreezer said..
I messed around with some 12 rear quad set-ups a few years ago ... kinda fun power slides for a few sessions etc ... but lost too much drive generally for general fun ...
13 skorch , 13 flex Leons and 13 stiff Leons could all be epic ...
If you want to make a slight adjustment to make yr stock fins better performance imo (ie wont be using then even for bigger sail stuff) let me know ... easy tweak u can do
Hi Seabreezer,
Some time ago in a hurry to catch the wind I found that I had forgot my rears. All I had left were 8 cm fronts and 10 cm fronts inthe bag and I had to do something, no buddies around. The forecast was rock and roll. Thank god all were slot box. So I put the 10 fronts as rears. It was a 70 l board a 4.0 sail 72 kg body weight. I thought that my seesion will be spoiled anyway.. but what a surprise- I managed to point the board at will.. and boy was it loose and FAST, no spinouts whatsoever. Maybe because I was well powered. During a break I did a small trick of mine- slightly displaced the rears which increased even more upwind performance and drive. Guys at the beach were scratching their heads thought I was nuts putting such children teeth on my board. But it worked and what a session I had. Imho all stock fins are oversized especially the rears and you can do away with way smaller stuff.
Very very sad that the interesting but non topic related discussion scared Utah to post his experience. ??????
It looks that the hardest thing in windsurfing is how to rig wave/freeride sails and the level of collars and pulley blocks...
Select to expand quotesprayblaze said..seabreezer said..
I messed around with some 12 rear quad set-ups a few years ago ... kinda fun power slides for a few sessions etc ... but lost too much drive generally for general fun ...
13 skorch , 13 flex Leons and 13 stiff Leons could all be epic ...
If you want to make a slight adjustment to make yr stock fins better performance imo (ie wont be using then even for bigger sail stuff) let me know ... easy tweak u can do
Hi Seabreezer,
Some time ago in a hurry to catch the wind I found that I had forgot my rears. All I had left were 8 cm fronts and 10 cm fronts inthe bag and I had to do something, no buddies around. The forecast was rock and roll. Thank god all were slot box. So I put the 10 fronts as rears. It was a 70 l board a 4.0 sail 72 kg body weight. I thought that my seesion will be spoiled anyway.. but what a surprise- I managed to point the board at will.. and boy was it loose and FAST, no spinouts whatsoever. Maybe because I was well powered. During a break I did a small trick of mine- slightly displaced the rears which increased even more upwind performance and drive. Guys at the beach were scratching their heads thought I was nuts putting such children teeth on my board. But it worked and what a session I had. Imho all stock fins are oversized especially the rears and you can do away with way smaller stuff.
Couldn't agree more. The production JP ultimate wave 69l comes with 9cm fronts and 14cm rears.
i used 13 cm rears with no fronts for a while, it was crazy fun but could be a little skippy when it was choppy. Threw in 8cm fronts and it's perfect now. Production fins are almost always badly sized. I guess it's because a bad wavesailor will need more fins to make life easier for him, and is more likely to enjoy an overfinned board, and a good sailor will know how to fix the problem, so it sells better
I would say that fin size to board size, would be individual, riders weight, sail size, wave conditions. Manufactures put a fin combo that best suits the biggest wind range, etc.
The current ultimate with 5 fin boxes allows heaps of experimentation, mast track and foot straps combined with fin size, shape and configuration can really change a boards feel. To tune to your taste of the conditions.
The stock fins on my 94 and 102 ultimate JP are fantastic for me. Thruster for jumping, under power, onshore, quad for anything else or max conditions were I want more control feel.
Im surprised old mate want post his findings as outlined on the Goya/Quattro boards.
Who cares what a couple of key board warriors bang on about ! Go on give us your thoughts, that's what forums are all about ?
Hi!
Utah, any way to get your review now?
It's been a long time but it's still interesting for most of us ;-)
Thks in advance
I think that Utah decided to never come back from his 3rd session it was so good. We now need to ask which board is missing to know the winner. In any case, WGAF. 
I have Cube 2017. Will I go buy Goya if someone says he liked it more - Nope. Plus I almost always sail mine as twin anyways. Can make it a 5-slot board easy. I personally feel that boards are like cameras, one needs to get to know one to really use it to the fullest. I also realized that I remember days and conditions when I had amazing time and not so the equipment I was on.
Select to expand quoteleto said..
I think that Utah decided to never come back from his 3rd session it was so good. We now need to ask which board is missing to know the winner. In any case, WGAF.
I have Cube 2017. Will I go buy Goya if someone says he liked it more - Nope. Plus I almost always sail mine as twin anyways. Can make it a 5-slot board easy. I personally feel that boards are like cameras, one needs to get to know one to really use it to the fullest. I also realized that I remember days and conditions when I had amazing time and not so the equipment I was on.
You're right in some ways... but it's always good to get the feeling of someone that can compare shapes for real.
They are sometimes really different and each one fits better to one or another.
