Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Downwind SUP foiling on a bay

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Created by dapara2004 4 months ago, 14 Feb 2022
dapara2004
59 posts
14 Feb 2022 1:59AM
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I wingfoil a 95L Naish Hover board on Armstrong foils (HS/HA) on a 85cm mast. I wing on a bay that has a 8-10 mile fetch and gets 3-5 foot wind swell with short periods and sets of 3-5 larger swells. A local outrigger canoer recently decided that his hope is to downwind sup foil. I have my doubts, but wanted to ask on this forum with my current foil setup, would it be possible, or what sort of board would be necessary to have a chance to get going in a place like this. How do boards for downwinding differ than wingfoiling boards? Can you wing upwind then deflate and paddle downwind? Not sure if there is much advantage to that, but I could see the possibility that you could get a fun downwind paddle not having the wing and avoid the car shuttle that way. Sometimes I want to ditch the wing because it gets very gusty on big days and I want only the waves..

Hdip
280 posts
14 Feb 2022 4:41AM
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Have I got a video for you!



yes you can downwind in a bay. The Armstrong 1325. Or maybe 1850 would be the most useful. Downwind boards are long and narrow. 6'2" x 22" as a rough estimate. Likely longer to learn.

kobo
NSW, 857 posts
14 Feb 2022 8:44AM
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Great video, there's a fair bit of pumping in those conditions....I would be cactus

dapara2004
59 posts
14 Feb 2022 12:05PM
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Hdip said..
Have I got a video for you!



yes you can downwind in a bay. The Armstrong 1325. Or maybe 1850 would be the most useful. Downwind boards are long and narrow. 6'2" x 22" as a rough estimate. Likely longer to learn.


Fun video! I was looking at those Kalama 6'+ boards. I have the 1125 and am weighing in at 68kg or so. Maybe if the 1125 is just too small I would think about the 1325. Those are fun wings. I am guessing I would probably have to paddle a lot between sets of swells in the bay here, and come off foil often unless I get my pumping just right. Learning must be a humbling experience, just like foiling was for the first time. Thanks for the tips.

Hdip
280 posts
14 Feb 2022 12:23PM
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Have another video.
www.instagram.com/tv/CZ5yyg5lGNB/?utm_medium=copy_link

the Kalama boards seem to be the absolute best production downwind boards right this moment. Go for the 6'5" at least. Watch "Jeremy Riggs" videos on Instagram. Watch "the Casey catchup" on YouTube or in podcast form
If you truly want to go all out. Join coach Casey club. caseyaus.com I think. It's doable. It will be hard if you're not a good sup paddler already.

paul.j
QLD, 3209 posts
14 Feb 2022 3:32PM
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Someone say DW foiling? Nothing better than the EGG!!! www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/the-egg

Theses boards are made for DW, plus they are crazy light and strong as anything on the market if not stronger and cheaper!

Can you DW in the conditions you have? yeah for sure it sounds like quite fun stuff. Your bumps sound pretty slow so get a big foil wing to start with as you will want some lift. Make sure you work hard on your paddling technique as getting up DW is really 90% technique and the better you can feel the water the easier it all becomes.

What you want to do by wind winging up wing and then paddle foiling DW sounds great but it does make things harder, having the wing on your back which is most of the time wet can really throw you balance out of wack so keep this in mind and to start with I would suggest to try it with no wing on your back.

Having the right gear does make life much easier and when it comes to DW foiling having any disadvantage just means extra pain!!

Feel free to ask me any questions you like as I will give as many tips as i can to help!!

dapara2004
59 posts
15 Feb 2022 3:47PM
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Select to expand quote
Hdip said..
Have another video.
www.instagram.com/tv/CZ5yyg5lGNB/?utm_medium=copy_link

the Kalama boards seem to be the absolute best production downwind boards right this moment. Go for the 6'5" at least. Watch "Jeremy Riggs" videos on Instagram. Watch "the Casey catchup" on YouTube or in podcast form
If you truly want to go all out. Join coach Casey club. caseyaus.com I think. It's doable. It will be hard if you're not a good sup paddler already.


Thank you for the encouragement and advice. A Kalama in that size should help!

dapara2004
59 posts
15 Feb 2022 3:49PM
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paul.j said..
Someone say DW foiling? Nothing better than the EGG!!! www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/the-egg

Theses boards are made for DW, plus they are crazy light and strong as anything on the market if not stronger and cheaper!

Can you DW in the conditions you have? yeah for sure it sounds like quite fun stuff. Your bumps sound pretty slow so get a big foil wing to start with as you will want some lift. Make sure you work hard on your paddling technique as getting up DW is really 90% technique and the better you can feel the water the easier it all becomes.

What you want to do by wind winging up wing and then paddle foiling DW sounds great but it does make things harder, having the wing on your back which is most of the time wet can really throw you balance out of wack so keep this in mind and to start with I would suggest to try it with no wing on your back.

Having the right gear does make life much easier and when it comes to DW foiling having any disadvantage just means extra pain!!

Feel free to ask me any questions you like as I will give as many tips as i can to help!!


Any references on the proper paddling techniques? Thank for the product suggestion. It'll come down to technique, adequate board size and a big enough foil.

frenchfoiler
424 posts
15 Feb 2022 3:59PM
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Select to expand quote
dapara2004 said..

paul.j said..
Someone say DW foiling? Nothing better than the EGG!!! www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/the-egg

Theses boards are made for DW, plus they are crazy light and strong as anything on the market if not stronger and cheaper!

Can you DW in the conditions you have? yeah for sure it sounds like quite fun stuff. Your bumps sound pretty slow so get a big foil wing to start with as you will want some lift. Make sure you work hard on your paddling technique as getting up DW is really 90% technique and the better you can feel the water the easier it all becomes.

What you want to do by wind winging up wing and then paddle foiling DW sounds great but it does make things harder, having the wing on your back which is most of the time wet can really throw you balance out of wack so keep this in mind and to start with I would suggest to try it with no wing on your back.

Having the right gear does make life much easier and when it comes to DW foiling having any disadvantage just means extra pain!!

Feel free to ask me any questions you like as I will give as many tips as i can to help!!



Any references on the proper paddling techniques? Thank for the product suggestion. It'll come down to technique, adequate board size and a big enough foil.


You need to be able to paddle on my side in the surf stance, so you need to know how to paddle using an angle on your blade.
There must be some video on youtube.

JB
NSW, 2226 posts
Site Sponsor
16 Feb 2022 12:41PM
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Select to expand quote
dapara2004 said..

paul.j said..
Someone say DW foiling? Nothing better than the EGG!!! www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/the-egg

Theses boards are made for DW, plus they are crazy light and strong as anything on the market if not stronger and cheaper!

Can you DW in the conditions you have? yeah for sure it sounds like quite fun stuff. Your bumps sound pretty slow so get a big foil wing to start with as you will want some lift. Make sure you work hard on your paddling technique as getting up DW is really 90% technique and the better you can feel the water the easier it all becomes.

What you want to do by wind winging up wing and then paddle foiling DW sounds great but it does make things harder, having the wing on your back which is most of the time wet can really throw you balance out of wack so keep this in mind and to start with I would suggest to try it with no wing on your back.

Having the right gear does make life much easier and when it comes to DW foiling having any disadvantage just means extra pain!!

Feel free to ask me any questions you like as I will give as many tips as i can to help!!



Any references on the proper paddling techniques? Thank for the product suggestion. It'll come down to technique, adequate board size and a big enough foil.


A great reference, coach and module resource is James Casey - www.caseyaus.com

I'm a club member and love the resource.

Ride safe,

JB

dapara2004
59 posts
17 Feb 2022 2:37AM
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Thank you for the tips and links to sites/clubs. I may try to take a lesson at the Hood River Gorge up in Oregon as soon as the winds return. I bet I can rent something longer and easier to learn on than my board and foil to get an idea of what it feels like to paddle up onto foil. I can already tell it is so much harder than pumping with a wing since I tried yesterday on flat water to start from 0 and paddle-leg pump onto my HS1550v2. I can't seem to generate enough forward speed on the stubby Naish Hover 95L board I have. I am guessing the longer and narrower boards track a bit better, and that makes it more possible. Once up, on the longer boards, I bet you won't be able to pump-paddle far on flat water, but that it is useful to do short intervals on the flats before attempting to catch a swell in windy conditions. Am I on the right track in my thinking about DWing and learning?


Select to expand quote
JB said..

dapara2004 said..


paul.j said..
Someone say DW foiling? Nothing better than the EGG!!! www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/the-egg

Theses boards are made for DW, plus they are crazy light and strong as anything on the market if not stronger and cheaper!

Can you DW in the conditions you have? yeah for sure it sounds like quite fun stuff. Your bumps sound pretty slow so get a big foil wing to start with as you will want some lift. Make sure you work hard on your paddling technique as getting up DW is really 90% technique and the better you can feel the water the easier it all becomes.

What you want to do by wind winging up wing and then paddle foiling DW sounds great but it does make things harder, having the wing on your back which is most of the time wet can really throw you balance out of wack so keep this in mind and to start with I would suggest to try it with no wing on your back.

Having the right gear does make life much easier and when it comes to DW foiling having any disadvantage just means extra pain!!

Feel free to ask me any questions you like as I will give as many tips as i can to help!!




Any references on the proper paddling techniques? Thank for the product suggestion. It'll come down to technique, adequate board size and a big enough foil.



A great reference, coach and module resource is James Casey - www.caseyaus.com

I'm a club member and love the resource.

Ride safe,

JB

Thatspec
WA, 88 posts
17 Feb 2022 4:09AM
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There's wind in the COLUMBIA Gorge this time of year too but hardly worth pursuing given the temps. By mid April we'll have consistent West winds again. You can probably find a longer board to rent but there is no shop here that will rent out a $2K USD modern Kalama board (only three shops) and that's what you really need to paddle up on to a foil. As a long time downwind surfski and sup paddler in the Gorge I also was interested initially in DW supfoil. Thankfully I came to my senses before investing too much and couldn't be happier doing winging DW'ers. Our regular run is 8 miles (barely 5 have good waves) and it's 55 minutes on a ski, 50 minutes on foil. This is just too short to bother with given the pita of setting up the car shuttle. With the wing we can go back upwind and do the good sections 2+ times and turn that run into 1.5+ hours. I guess everyone has to learn it for themselves and it's worth trying but don't be too hard on yourself if you come to the same conclusion. I'd estimate only 5% of people that try actually ever become accomplished downwind sup foilers.

Windgenuity
NSW, 529 posts
Site Sponsor
17 Feb 2022 12:24PM
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dapara2004 said..
Thank you for the tips and links to sites/clubs. I may try to take a lesson at the Hood River Gorge up in Oregon as soon as the winds return. I bet I can rent something longer and easier to learn on than my board and foil to get an idea of what it feels like to paddle up onto foil. I can already tell it is so much harder than pumping with a wing since I tried yesterday on flat water to start from 0 and paddle-leg pump onto my HS1550v2. I can't seem to generate enough forward speed on the stubby Naish Hover 95L board I have. I am guessing the longer and narrower boards track a bit better, and that makes it more possible. Once up, on the longer boards, I bet you won't be able to pump-paddle far on flat water, but that it is useful to do short intervals on the flats before attempting to catch a swell in windy conditions. Am I on the right track in my thinking about DWing and learning?



JB said..


dapara2004 said..



paul.j said..
Someone say DW foiling? Nothing better than the EGG!!! www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/the-egg

Theses boards are made for DW, plus they are crazy light and strong as anything on the market if not stronger and cheaper!

Can you DW in the conditions you have? yeah for sure it sounds like quite fun stuff. Your bumps sound pretty slow so get a big foil wing to start with as you will want some lift. Make sure you work hard on your paddling technique as getting up DW is really 90% technique and the better you can feel the water the easier it all becomes.

What you want to do by wind winging up wing and then paddle foiling DW sounds great but it does make things harder, having the wing on your back which is most of the time wet can really throw you balance out of wack so keep this in mind and to start with I would suggest to try it with no wing on your back.

Having the right gear does make life much easier and when it comes to DW foiling having any disadvantage just means extra pain!!

Feel free to ask me any questions you like as I will give as many tips as i can to help!!





Any references on the proper paddling techniques? Thank for the product suggestion. It'll come down to technique, adequate board size and a big enough foil.




A great reference, coach and module resource is James Casey - www.caseyaus.com

I'm a club member and love the resource.

Ride safe,

JB



It is all a bit more complex than just the right gear. While gear is important and can make life easier, DW is 98% skill/practice/knowledge. No one just jumps on and goes, no one!

Understanding which bumps to paddle for (usually not the swells) and then what to do once up. There is a lot in it.

How is your pumping (not wing) in waves? Generally being able to 3 or 4 for one is a good start.

If you can hook up with some gorge crew that are already DW'ing that will help a lot.

Dommo49
162 posts
17 Feb 2022 12:30PM
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paul.j said..
Someone say DW foiling? Nothing better than the EGG!!! www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/the-egg

Theses boards are made for DW, plus they are crazy light and strong as anything on the market if not stronger and cheaper!

Can you DW in the conditions you have? yeah for sure it sounds like quite fun stuff. Your bumps sound pretty slow so get a big foil wing to start with as you will want some lift. Make sure you work hard on your paddling technique as getting up DW is really 90% technique and the better you can feel the water the easier it all becomes.

What you want to do by wind winging up wing and then paddle foiling DW sounds great but it does make things harder, having the wing on your back which is most of the time wet can really throw you balance out of wack so keep this in mind and to start with I would suggest to try it with no wing on your back.

Having the right gear does make life much easier and when it comes to DW foiling having any disadvantage just means extra pain!!

Feel free to ask me any questions you like as I will give as many tips as i can to help!!



The egg boards look awesome - great to see these new downwind specific shapes emerging to help move this side of the sport forward.
Can you give us an approximate idea of what weight the 2 sizes will be?

paul.j
QLD, 3209 posts
17 Feb 2022 4:00PM
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5'10 x 90L is approx 5kg and the 6'1 x 108L is approx 5.5kg.

mcrt
476 posts
17 Feb 2022 8:57PM
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paul.j said..
5'10 x 90L is approx 5kg and the 6'1 x 108L is approx 5.5kg.


That is superb weight to volume&lenght ratio.

Dommo49
162 posts
18 Feb 2022 1:23PM
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paul.j said..
5'10 x 90L is approx 5kg and the 6'1 x 108L is approx 5.5kg.


Awesome!!!!!!!

dapara2004
59 posts
19 Feb 2022 12:05AM
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Thatspec said..



There's wind in the COLUMBIA Gorge this time of year too but hardly worth pursuing given the temps. By mid April we'll have consistent West winds again. You can probably find a longer board to rent but there is no shop here that will rent out a $2K USD modern Kalama board (only three shops) and that's what you really need to paddle up on to a foil. As a long time downwind surfski and sup paddler in the Gorge I also was interested initially in DW supfoil. Thankfully I came to my senses before investing too much and couldn't be happier doing winging DW'ers. Our regular run is 8 miles (barely 5 have good waves) and it's 55 minutes on a ski, 50 minutes on foil. This is just too short to bother with given the pita of setting up the car shuttle. With the wing we can go back upwind and do the good sections 2+ times and turn that run into 1.5+ hours. I guess everyone has to learn it for themselves and it's worth trying but don't be too hard on yourself if you come to the same conclusion. I'd estimate only 5% of people that try actually ever become accomplished downwind sup foilers.


Interesting! I don't really want to learn it the expensive or hard way, so I appreciate your honest appraisal of the sport. Sounds a bit like dock-starts from public docks that are less expensive than ideal, and I already went down that path before coming to my senses (luckily I can use the board I got for kitefoiling). I might goof around locally after a good winging session, but put my efforts into improving my winging skills. Plus the money saved can be used towards wing or other parts that need eventual replacement.

NordRoi
469 posts
15 Jun 2022 1:59AM
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I wonder if it's realistic to downwind any small lake / River in 25 knts? Do you need a certain type of swell or any spot can produce enough to make a downwind for 5 km? The longest fetch on the river is about 10km.

PeterP
762 posts
16 Jun 2022 2:25AM
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NordRoi said..
I wonder if it's realistic to downwind any small lake / River in 25 knts? Do you need a certain type of swell or any spot can produce enough to make a downwind for 5 km? The longest fetch on the river is about 10km.


Short period windswell, such as on a lake, is perfect. All you need is wind, minimum 20-30kn to build up some meaningful bumps - you are good to go

NordRoi
469 posts
16 Jun 2022 2:55AM
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Thanks for the tips PeterP

baldy123
WA, 250 posts
19 Jun 2022 12:07PM
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I did our local River run yesterday here in Perth. Blowing 20-20knots.
Took me three attempts to get going. Very small bumps at the start with the small wind fetch over the water. Once up on third paddle up attempt it was easy to maintain flight as the bumps had developed. I was using a GoFoil GT2200.
Average pace was 3min20 per km.
It is fun but run is over in 20 minutes!
The more wind the better for bay runs I think, but definitely worth it if you have the right equipment and can be bothered with car shuttle logistics.



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"Downwind SUP foiling on a bay" started by dapara2004