Foil Sup DW

For the sup foil dw in the Gorge this weekend, the first one was on Arstrong 1125 ans the second Lift 170, those two are really talended kids from Hawai. Seems like it wasn't super windy.

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Hank1 said..
Do you have a weight on the 5'10 in the elite construction?

For the 5'10 we should run the weight approx 5-5.5kg, once we have a certain amount from the molds we will run the averages for the weights. My last wing board which is the same Volume and also runs no strap inserts was 5kg on the dot so these EGG boards will be about the same.

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Hdip said..
Probably copied kdmaui's boards.
www.instagram.com/p/CEnvsBMjkiO/?utm_medium=copy_link

well... did this "extreme pintail" downwind specific board over two years ago:) I think many (shapers) get the same ideas around the same time period. Its just a matter on who executes and also shows it to the world...

Hi crew,

I don't really get onto the seabreeze forums very often but JB let me know there was a new DW SUP Foiling thread so I searched it out. Stoked to see everyone froth out on the DW SUP Foiling, to me the pinnacle of foiling.

The board makes a big difference but it really is a balancing act. Too small a board and your balance is jeopardised, too big a board and your ability to paddle up onto the foil is jeopardised. It really needs to be the right for you. I'd recommend going longer and skinnier rather than falling into the trap of going shorter and wider. I use a 6'0x24 at around 78L (similar litres to my surf SUP) but I could go more volume and narrower. I have gradually gone shorter and then settled on 6'0 but the easiest board I ever paddled up was 7'2x24, feels long now though.

On foil size start with the biggest foil you can get your hands on, higher aspect better as it has a wider range so you can get that early lift and still go quicker once up on the foil. I always recommend the GL240 or something similar in size like the axis 1300, I'm not all that aware of the larger foils for other brands but just go for the largest high aspect foil to start with. Once you make an entire DW run without coming off the foil you can trade down a size so to the Gl210 or NL220 or Axis 1150 for example. Continue to make your way down the sizes. My go to DW foil is the PNL 185. To me it is so good as the range it has is truly amazing. I can go as slow as the GL210 but as fast as the NL160 that kind of range is ridiculous and really it is what you want in a DW foil as conditions do change. For the really good days I have used the GL140 and NL160 but I don't find them faster all the time as if they aren't fully up and going you are just hanging on trying to keep it up on foil whereas the PNL185 glides through those lighter sections holding it's speed far better. Better to be over foiled than under foiled every time, especially when DW Foiling.

There are a few different methods to simulate a DWer to get you ready for the real deal something I've worked on and created a step by step guide for. For anyone interested in honing their skills to get ready for SUP DW foiling feel free to get in contact at info@caseyaus.com or have a look at my Online Foiling Modules as part of the Coach Casey Club caseyaus.com/pages/downwind-foil-program

Cheers,

James

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frenchfoiler said..

danish said..

Hdip said..
Probably copied kdmaui's boards.
www.instagram.com/p/CEnvsBMjkiO/?utm_medium=copy_link

well... did this "extreme pintail" downwind specific board over two years ago:) I think many (shapers) get the same ideas around the same time period. Its just a matter on who executes and also shows it to the world...

Eevrybody has differen idea. I went the opposiste on my desing, the most stable board still the most narrow board will be the easiest to take off. To achieve that, the deep double concave (all the way), with really light bevels rail and concave deck can give you lot of stability, more tracking and more controle while flying. My 5'7 x 22.5 - 92L is a game changer for quick take off.

That board looks great! Guess it must feel really rigid and "direct". What is the thickness at the trackboxes? Cant really get my head around why it shouldn't suck to the water. Feels like my convex-bottom boards pop up without much speed. Like an submerged basketball.

Are the edges/rails level with the center? If you take a ruler and place it at along the blue stripes it will show. Any rocker-details?

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danish said..

frenchfoiler said..

danish said..

Hdip said..
Probably copied kdmaui's boards.
www.instagram.com/p/CEnvsBMjkiO/?utm_medium=copy_link

well... did this "extreme pintail" downwind specific board over two years ago:) I think many (shapers) get the same ideas around the same time period. Its just a matter on who executes and also shows it to the world...

Eevrybody has differen idea. I went the opposiste on my desing, the most stable board still the most narrow board will be the easiest to take off. To achieve that, the deep double concave (all the way), with really light bevels rail and concave deck can give you lot of stability, more tracking and more controle while flying. My 5'7 x 22.5 - 92L is a game changer for quick take off.

That board looks great! Guess it must feel really rigid and "direct". What is the thickness at the trackboxes? Cant really get my head around why it shouldn't suck to the water. Feels like my convex-bottom boards pop up without much speed. Like an submerged basketball.

Are the edges/rails level with the center? If you take a ruler and place it at along the blue stripes it will show. Any rocker-details?

Thickness under the feet are between 4'8 to 4'5 (thinner under tne front foot).

When you touch down, the board react very well, doesn't stick at all.

I understand the concept of the convex bottom (just like a prone or the nsp sup race board) but I think you loose some stability, no ?

Hey crew,
thanks! After reading this post and Jimmys podcast , keen to give it another crack!
Tried dw foil in my early foiling days and was a fail (sounds like everyone's experience now reading into it, haha), now i'm back
Been winging mostly now for a year or so, now my only board is now a PPC 5'7 x 25.8 99L
Sort of a do it all board and more wing specific with a but double concave up front for touch downs at speed, doesn't paddle the straightest on the minimal sup foil I do now but will give a crack on this once out of lockdown.
My old board was an axis 7'9 x 27 door shape but grew out of/sold that on the ding pretty fast but very easy to catch waves on sup foil.

Do we think going a bit longer and narrow (as I'm hearing) will make things a lot easier (I have lots of sup experience)
i.e.
5'10 x 24 95L?
I'll try with Army 1850
chrs
TIA

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audrius said..
Is it different shape of sup foil ant dw sup foil board, if it is , ao why ?

Here's what I know so far about downwind SUP boards. this may not be 100% true, it's just based on my experimentation and experience.

Dw setup doesn't need the lift while touching down in turns, doesn't need stability paddling across chop and over waves, and doesn't need the same tail and rail clearance as a surf SUP.

Because of this you can get away with a way more efficient hull shape: rounder cross sections, no kick in the tail, basic square rails etc. most newer designs are pushing the length to beam ratio, with the highest performing boards over 6' length and under 22" width.

As a a reference, I've paddled a couple 22" wide boards including Jeremy Riggs Kalama board, they were at least as easy to stand on as my 24" wide pintail and got up on foil incredibly easy (relative to most boards). 20" is totally doable with a round or beveled bottom because all of the roll stability comes from your foil. Reducing width especially in the nose and tail will affect the swing weight of the board as well, a skinny board can feel the same as a 6" shorter wide board.

Release is huge, any edge behind your front foot needs to be sharp, if there is a kick tail it needs a step and sharp edge.

biggest factors in a good dw board seem to be
clean, sharp, flat release off the tail and rails
simple shape/bottom

skinny outline
it doesn't take much, a 6' x 22" wide door with enough rocker and volume will get up fine. just keep it simple!

Today I tried the Kujira 1440 from my friend.
Bumps were small and super short.
I really liked it, the low speed lift was very interesting, very forgiving for those conditions where you need to stay between two bumps riding sideways going slow. But still a good speed on the steeper part of the run. I guess it is not so carvy but that is not the goal, on those conditions i like to keep it safe and do a clean run without any mistake.
Definetly a good foil for intermediate on medium to good days or good rider on light days.
But you need to do a bit of sanding, those winglets are scary !

Had an awesome bay DW'er yesterday and thought i'd share it. This run was on Pittwater in yesterday's southerly. About 20kn, and just as the sun was setting milking the last of it.

This is running form the land locked end of Pittwater out to Broken bay. SO no swell, all wind chop with a relatively short fetch.

Riding the Naish Hover 120, JET 2140HA/310HA on 64cm Fuse and 75cm Alloy Mast. A 3 degree mount shim and a 2 degree rear wing shim. I also drilled an extra hole an inch further back to alloy me to mount another inch further forward. This is the ultimate lift pig setup.

Enjoy,

Ride safe,

JB

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eppo said..
Man that looks fun. One day

So much fun!!

I unfortunately started the run with weed on my mast which proved to be an issue, but once I realized and took the weed off, here's my stats.



Bloody weed ruined my first bit.

DW foiling is the ultimate for sure,

Ride safe,

JB

Haha great DW vid especially when Ben comes into shot, the ending was a classic, can't look at your watch while DWing !

HAha Bloody Epic Jacko!

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raffig said..
Hello,
I am new to DW (never tried actually, only windfoiling...) and I was wondering if it would be doable with my current Takuma TK 110 (6' x 27" x 6, 110 liters). It is great for SUP foiling but from what I am reading here it may be a bit too big on the width side. Any thoughts about the bottom shape and if it would to be fine for DW? Greetings from Spain and thanks for any input!

Not the best as it is wide but if you have a big foil and if it is strong wind you will be able to do it.

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kobo said..

JB said..
Had an awesome bay DW'er yesterday and thought i'd share it. This run was on Pittwater in yesterday's southerly. About 20kn, and just as the sun was setting milking the last of it.

This is running form the land locked end of Pittwater out to Broken bay. SO no swell, all wind chop with a relatively short fetch.

Riding the Naish Hover 120, JET 2140HA/310HA on 64cm Fuse and 75cm Alloy Mast. A 3 degree mount shim and a 2 degree rear wing shim. I also drilled an extra hole an inch further back to alloy me to mount another inch further forward. This is the ultimate lift pig setup.

Enjoy,

Ride safe,

JB

2140 sounds like a huge wing, is it easy to get overcooked on it ? And how does it turn ?

Hey Kobo,

Yes it is a big wing, I use it a lot as I love the lift. As mentioned I had everything shimmed up. I am 6'2" and 90kg +/- and can wind the 2140 out to 30+kmh and bomb most swells that we generally get on a light DW'er. It turns way better than you would ever imagine.

Something that a lot of crew are still working out is the importance of matching your Foil speed to the bumps you intend to ride. In that video, I am riding in a bay with no ocean influence at all, no swell and only short fetch chops. This means they do not travel very fast. So there is no point in going fast on your foil as you'll just out run the bumps very quickly and end up having to pump a lot (If you were racing, then yes, you'd use the smallest foil you can get up on and pump your ass off), the 2140 allows me to run super slow and use the bump energy, and thus I do not need to pump very much at all.

Looking at my GPS playback, I can see that taking out the max and min speeds, I am sitting between 15-19kmh pretty consistently which does reflect in my average speed of 17.9kmh. But the cool thing with this foil is I also have lows in the 12's and highs in the 24's. This is where the gold is on this foil - Usable range!

If it was an ocean run with good wind, then I would definitely look at running the 1800HA or even the 1400HA. This would respectively move those scales up to something like - 1800, 17-22kmh (13's - 28's) and 1400, 18-26kmh (14's-30's).

Being a more generously proportioned rider has some exponential disadvantages when it comes to DW'ing on all craft. Being heavier you're not just having to move more weight on tiny power sources, but you generally require bigger equipment also to get going which also adds extra drag. So extra weight of rider, extra weight of larger gear and extra drag of bigger boards and foils, you get stung harder as you get bigger. BUT!!! Once you're up, you can hold a bigger foil for longer, and you can also hang on longer and overcome huge lifts where a lighter rider wouldn't. Being able to ride a bigger foil can have advantages in the small stuff provided you can hold it on the big "sets". But the big one is always just getting up and not just getting up, but getting up with the energy left in the tank.

I love DW'ing and I am not really in a rush when I'm up. I quite like going slow and see how well I can get in sync with the bumps, see how little I can work. On a hard day, I may have to come down and rest to get my heart rate down, BPM can be well into the 170's and averaging 162 BPM, then days like this one, I am staying below 160's BPM and averaging 146 BPM. This makes a huge difference.

Looking forward to my next run.

Ride safe,

JB